G'day all, we are babysitting a Speedmaster automatic Mk 40 for a friend. I believe the reference is 35205300. It is pictured below, along with my speedies: a 145022-74 and a 9300.

The Mk 40 has sat in our friend's sock drawer for years and is in need of a service and maybe a new bezel. Apart from the fact that it's not currently running, it's a very cool watch and we'd love to see him wearing it again. So we took it to our AD to get an appraisal of what it needs. They sent it off to Swatch Group and a couple of weeks later we got an assessment that kind of surprised me. Amongst other things, under the "Essential Procedures" category was the item "Movement Replacement, Seals, Hands".

That's right: "Movement Replacement".

We are going to go back to them and ask a few questions before we authorise any work. Replacement seals I can understand. To my eyes there is absolutely nothing wrong with the hands. But my key question for the learned OF crowd is as follows: does it seem reasonable that they are proposing to REPLACE this movement? This seems odd to me. Maybe it's a miscommunication. But when my partner asked for clarification over the phone, the AD representative said that it is probably going to be more expensive to repair it than to replace it. Is anyone aware of anything about this movement that might make it particularly difficult or expensive to repair? Or is this an example of why "don't send it to Omega" has become a bit of a catchcry?
Thanks to everyone for making OF a fun and informative place to visit and thanks in advance for your thoughts. Mods - apologies if this doesn't belong in the modern section. Please feel free to move the thread.

 

I've heard that this is standard procedure for this caliber, but maybe @Archer can confirm.

And if you need expert guidance on this watch, I'm sure @FullyWound can help out.

 

I got a CRATE load of post service omega parts the stuff they take out of watches is INSANE we had 5 or 6 321/861 speedmaster COMPLETE hands sets most looked NEW

Hands is a big one they like taking hands off Pushers crowns... case backs? and ALL ETA MOVEMENTS if there was anything wrong with an eta 2892a (omega 1111) or as you say your 1151 eta 7751 pull it out! jam in a new one!....

EVERY Crystal All Spring bars etc etc erc you cant say they are not thorough! but seriously excessive..

 

They certainly replace the piggyback movements in the reduced models but it is news to me that they don't bother to just service the 7751 based movements like this.

 

Thanks so much for the responses guys!

It's interesting to hear that this is not uncommon for the reduced models. So, I'd be fascinated to know why it's economical to keep some very old movements going, but Omega wants to treat these more recent automatics effectively as disposable items.

It seems seriously excessive to me too, @FullyWound. One of the things that I have come to enjoy about mechanical watches is their relative longevity. There are very few things that we own and use for longer than a couple of years these days. Frankly, I think I expected more from a company like Omega. Not because they are a charity, but rather because a focus on history, longevity, and reliability should add value to their brand.

 

A couple of interesting videos showing this movement. Clearly some folks are prepared to work on it. I find it very hard to come to terms with the idea of simply throwing such a lovely thing away...

 

hey you want longevity CHECK THIS OUT








An item entirely REBUILT out of Omega's "Junk" unserviceable parts Labour was intensive approximately 2.5 days parts cost was £120 (parts purchased from omega) but this watch in its entirety was deemed UNSERVICEABLE junk yes it was heavily water damaged but clearly NOT beyond repair its running now and looks great! but was built out of their "JUNK" Considered by them as "beyond economic repair" Basically its cheaper for them to get you a NEW watch which leads to the questions HOW MUCH do omega pay for say a 1111 or a 7751 before swapping it is cheaper than servicing it??!

ALSO ask them for the OLD movement BACK then send it to someone like me that will buy it service it and sell it as a running movement or failing that PARTS or sell it yourself!

 

It's not a normal thing to replace the movement in these, at least not that I am aware of. The modular chronographs in the reduced and dynamics yes, but not these. Typically the only time one of these would be replaced is if there was water inside and the movement was rusted to the point of no return, like this one:



Don't care who you are, you aren't salvaging that one....it was essentially one fused mass that I had to break apart:



So a couple of things...what country are you in, and what Omega service center did it go to? Are you sure it went to the service center? Did you see the quote on Swatch Group letterhead?

Considering that price of a new movement would nearly exceed the value of the watch, I'm not sure this is a good move if they insist on it. I would suggest finding an independent watchmaker with an Omega parts account, who can perform a more sympathetic service. There are some big ticket items in the movement that can require replacing, but there would have to be a lot wrong to warrant replacing the movement.

Cheers, Al

 

thats what the 1111 above looked like! STUPID STUPID didn't get "before" photographs

 

No, it wasn't. There's no way possible you could bring it back from a state like that to what you show for 120 UKP. New balance alone is 1/2 of your budget...

 

no we had 3 of them one case 2 dials 3 sets of hands + extra parts maispring barrels etc etc all i needed was a crown and a mainspring

 

That'll buff right out.

I had a discussion with a guy who worked at one of the big companies and he did hand fitting, and really only this, on modern watch servicing. My understanding is that they replace the hands because they are such a visible part of the watch and easy to damage that it is safer to replace them than refit. It also removes the possibility that the hand holes have become enlarged due to continuous removal and replacement so that they become loose. The skill of the person fitting new hands only is at a technician level so, it’s more cost effective as well.

There’s a specific tool for tightening hands but, that’s a slightly more skilled job and so, it’s just easier to replace them.

Is that your understanding of the reasons for typical hand replacement, Al?

Cheers, Chris

 

Exactly.

 

Yes, as I've written before, the people who do the initial disassembly of the watch on arrival are typically not trained watchmakers, but people who have been hired off the street and trained on the job. They remove the bracelet or strap, remove the case back, remove the movement, then remove the dial and hands. The case and bracelet go to the refinishing department where again people hired off the street and trained do all the case work. The movement alone goes to the watchmakers, who disassemble, clean, replace parts, assemble, and test. Once that's finished the movement goes back to meet up with the rest of the watch, where again the people hired off the street and trained do the final assembly, so mount the dial, hands, case the watch etc.

There are lots of things that can be done to hands to salvage them, but since company standards don't specify that original parts should be preserved when possible, they simply replace them. The slightest blemish, the "risk" of lume flaking, a hand that is a little too loose, are all things that can be fixed, but in a corporate service center setting would all simply be replaced. Throughput and efficiency are the keys in a setting like this - as someone who spent some time in the industrial engineering department in a large firm doing time and motion studies, I don't believe they get down to this level of detail, but when they see a way to save a minute here or there, they will take it.

It's the kind of environment that I personally could not work in.

Cheers, Al

 

I have a family member with a MK40 that has probably spent more time in need of service or being serviced then on the wrist...the others I have heard have been flawless...either way cool looking watch and interesting they just pop a new movement in. Any suggestions on where to service one?

 

fullywound.com?

@Archer ?

lots of watchmakers on OF!

 

Stunning repair, your repair chap must be a wizard................

 

Thanks so much to you all for your thoughts on this. It is contributions of the kind above that make OF such a fun place to hang out and learn.

@Archer, in answer to your questions: We are in Melbourne, Australia. We have been told by the AD, who we trust, that it went to the Swatch Group service centre just across town. The quote and schedule of proposed repairs came back on the AD's letterhead.

We are pretty sure that the movement is not heavily water damaged. It certainly looked nothing like the images above when we had the caseback opened a few months ago. In fact, it looked fairly pristine to our uneducated eyes; despite the fact that our friend, the owner, did take the watch into the water many times (but perhaps we ought not open that can of worms...)

Given that consensus here seems to be that expediency is likely a factor in why Omega want to replace, rather than repair, we are thinking we will decline the work and seek an independent with an Omega parts account. Someone who will hopefully take the time to preserve that which can be preserved. To the gents above who are in the trade, thanks again for your insights. I'd be very happy to send some business your way. However, to simplify everyone's life, I'm hoping to keep the watch in Australia if possible. Recommendations gratefully accepted. Thanks again one and all

 

The only reason I asked about the letterhead is that there have been incidents where AD's have told people they were sending the watch to Omega for servicing, and they used a local cheaper place for the repairs instead, and still charged Omega money. One incident that was reported on WUS was an AD in Toronto...

I don't have a local recommendation for you, but hopefully you can find someone. BTW my wife hails from Ballarat, so not too far from Melbourne. We hope to get back down under sometime in the next couple of years, as all her family still lives there.

Cheers, Al

 

Ballarat is a lovely little city! I've spent quite a bit of time there. It has a reputation in Victoria for being cold, which I imagine you guys would find laughable

So, now the hunt is on. I will report back if-and-when we find out anything more that could be of use to the OF readership. I'll begin by putting the forum's search function to good use, but if any Australian readers are able to offer leads, please do let me know.