Serialnumber partially milled out: how comes?

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Hi Folks,
I placed this question in a German watch forum too, but I thought a dedicated omega forum might be a good choice too:
I just saw an omega 121.002-62 with the 269 mvmt on eBay. The vendor seem not to be a fake or so, but the serialnumber on the mvmt has 2 digits milled out. It looks to have been done very professionally. Still I wonder how that comes. Is it something fishy in your opinion?
TIA,
Hrachia
 
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And if you are in the southern US states it’s “Why comes” not “how comes”.
 
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This thread has the story article posted by @X350 XJR it’s a good read. The gist of story is that Norman Morris held rights to Omega distribution in US, and another company started buying Onega watches in Europe and selling in US after drilling out part of SN to avoid detection. They got caught after a while…..
 
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This thread has the story article posted by @X350 XJR it’s a good read. The gist of story is that Norman Morris held rights to Omega distribution in US, and another company started buying Onega watches in Europe and selling in US after drilling out part of SN to avoid detection. They got caught after a while…..
It is an interesting read and an impressive feat of research but do we know what drilling out the SN was meant to accomplish? It struck me that the legal judgment specifically prohibited the defendant from selling Omega watches with drilled-out serial numbers in Norman Morris territory (US including Puerto Rico), implying that obscuring the SNs somehow created a loophole for the grey-market company to compete in the same market. I’m guessing that the court saw no need to reiterate that the defendant couldn’t sell Omega watches at all, since it found that NM was indeed the exclusive distributor.

There must be something in the court opinion that addresses the intent behind carefully drilling out the SN. The article writer complains a lot about how hard it was to slog through reading the original court judgment, but in fact the article itself is not very clearly written, so I might have missed this explanation.

https://openjurist.org/466/f2d/137/norman-morris-corporation-v-weinstein
 
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It is an interesting read and an impressive feat of research but do we know what drilling out the SN was meant to accomplish? It struck me that the legal judgment specifically prohibited the defendant from selling Omega watches with drilled-out serial numbers in Norman Morris territory (US including Puerto Rico), implying that obscuring the SNs somehow created a loophole for the grey-market company to compete in the same market. I’m guessing that the court saw no need to reiterate that the defendant couldn’t sell Omega watches at all, since it found that NM was indeed the exclusive distributor.

There must be something in the court opinion that addresses the intent behind carefully drilling out the SN. The article writer complains a lot about how hard it was to slog through reading the original court judgment, but in fact the article itself is not very clearly written, so I might have missed this explanation.

https://openjurist.org/466/f2d/137/norman-morris-corporation-v-weinstein
I understood that drilling SN was meant to obscure where the watches came from to protect their sources. But I may be wrong.
 
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It is an interesting read and an impressive feat of research but do we know what drilling out the SN was meant to accomplish? It struck me that the legal judgment specifically prohibited the defendant from selling Omega watches with drilled-out serial numbers in Norman Morris territory (US including Puerto Rico), implying that obscuring the SNs somehow created a loophole for the grey-market company to compete in the same market. I’m guessing that the court saw no need to reiterate that the defendant couldn’t sell Omega watches at all, since it found that NM was indeed the exclusive distributor.

There must be something in the court opinion that addresses the intent behind carefully drilling out the SN. The article writer complains a lot about how hard it was to slog through reading the original court judgment, but in fact the article itself is not very clearly written, so I might have missed this explanation.

https://openjurist.org/466/f2d/137/norman-morris-corporation-v-weinstein
OK, the article does say at the end of the third paragraph from the bottom “[t]he reason for the serial number alteration appeared to be to prevent the Omega Watch Company from identifying which dealers sold the altered Omega watches.” The opinion, which is an appeal of a previous case that went against the defendant, Weinstein, states:

“48
The law fosters and protects lawful competition, but prohibits unlawful competition.9 A manufacturer has the right to select the agent who shall exclusively represent him in the sale of his product, and to designate the territory within which he shall so act.
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By so doing, it does not in any way prohibit Weinstein from importing into the United States Omega watches lawfully acquired by him in Europe and lawfully selling them in the United States and Puerto Rico.
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The injunction provision of the decree reads:
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“Hyman Weinstein, d/b/a Bright Star Enterprise, his agents, servants, employees, attorneys, and all persons acting in conjunction with the defendant or at his direction, be and they are hereby permanently restrained and enjoined from selling or distributing any watches bearing the name 'Omega' which have drilled out serial numbers and which do not have with them the genuine guarantee of the Omega Watch Company in any of the fifty states of the United States and the island of Puerto Rico.”
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Weinstein contends that such language prohibits him from selling Omega watches anywhere in the United States and Puerto Rico. That is a tacit admission by Weinstein that he cannot acquire Omega watches unless the identifying digits in the serial numbers of the watches have been drilled out.”
I understood that drilling SN was meant to obscure where the watches came from to protect their sources. But I may be wrong.
That does indeed seem to be the intent. The European dealers who sold the defendant these watches in quantity wanted to hide their involvement in his scheme.

Weinstein appealed the original summary judgment by arguing that Norman Morris had not produced proof of their agreement with Omega and because of that the original court did not have jurisdiction to made a decree against him. The appeals court threw out his arguments and said the decree upholds Norman Morris’s case that Weinstein falsely represented his watches as being authorized and guaranteed by Omega and that he unfairly hurt their business in Florida, where Weinstein had sold watches to dealers and by mail order directly to customers. The dealers told Norman Morris they would stop selling Omega watches unless NM “straightened out” the situation, presumably because they could not be sure if Omega would guarantee the Weinstein watches. The dealers also said their sales were being undercut by Weinstein, presumably because of his mail-order business.

The appeals court agreed that the original injunction should have clarified that Weinstein was enjoined only from selling Omega products without disclosing that the serial numbers had been drilled out and without disclosing that the watches are not guaranteed by Omega but only by Weinstein himself. In other words, he can sell whatever he wants as long as he makes it abundantly clear that Omega does not guarantee the watches. The court also held Weinstein liable for the costs of the appeal, so it seems to have gone pretty badly for him.
Edited:
 
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I wonder how Omega would treat these watches today. I imagine no different at this point in time, after so long. A watch sale is a watch sale. They were sold to a dealer and a dealer sold them to Weinstein. It seems Weinstein was only guilty of selling watches with obliterated serial numbers without disclosure and saying that Omega stood behind them and guaranteed them.
 
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So sad that people can not compete or merit alone. That there has to be some sort of cheat. To restrict territory and sniffle any competition.

Does however show that little has changed. Those who game the system seem to come out ahead in the short term of things.

On the other hand, I have been buying a lot of parts movements and assortments. This has given me a number of serial number plates (with complete serial numbers.) Would have been too expensive when archive extracts were being done to trace them.

I am sort of leaning on the idea of relisting the plates (most are from bumper automatics) It feels a lot like treading water when getting parts assortments. Every incomplete watch is another set of parts to seek out.

The only real value Omega (and others) gets from the vintage stuff is free advertising. That they still do stand by the product is pretty nice. More though that they want to instill confidence that the current product is just as good.

I often quote my mentor who said properly maintained there is no reason such watches will not last 500 years or more. (Which is probably non a good business model if one wants to sell new watches every year or five or 10.)

It is easy enough to swap the plates out (as some unscrupulous omega associates did) So for these mass produced watches, who know what has been swapped? Although the bridges tend to discolor different over time.

Modern production falls under different rules (guidelines?) where the SN are randomly assigned and there is much more design protections copyrights and trademarks happening.

Watchco and others sort of ruined the spare parts supply by assembling spares into watches, which in a way is just another 'cheat' to game the system.

I noticed when looking for cases for my movements, that there are a huge number of microbrands. That like the old days one can easily order custom parts. Most though seem to be copies of popular models. A quick search of sites like alibaba shows that the base parts are readily available. And there must be some crossover in the search cookies as eBay recommends the same crap.

So what ever Weinstein and Norman Morris were doing, People are still doing much the same.

And I am not sure I am that much different buying rusty junk and cleaning it up for my own use. I am amazed at the explosion of YT watch fixit videos.

At least they are sustainable.
 
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Oh wow. Im overwhelmed with this forum.
Thanks a lot!
And sorry for my bad English: why comes 😎
Thank you guys so much.
Regards,
Hrachia
 
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I wonder how Omega would treat these watches today. I imagine no different at this point in time, after so long. A watch sale is a watch sale. They were sold to a dealer and a dealer sold them to Weinstein. It seems Weinstein was only guilty of selling watches with obliterated serial numbers without disclosure and saying that Omega stood behind them and guaranteed them.
From Omega's Customer Service Policy...

If the serial number is erased on the case as well as on the movement the following procedure has to be applied:

Watch not in production anymore - the service must be declined and the watch returned without any intervention.
 
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I wonder if removing the SN was a bit like trade paperbacks. The sellers were required to return the cover for credit on unsold copies. There was a disclaimer in the front what indicated that if the book was sold without a cover (or a different cover) it was basically stolen property.

Most other brands movements, especially chrongographs from Landeron or Valjoux do not have serial numbers on the movements. Same for A. Schild. Since these were used in high end watches and well known brands such as rolex, how is anyone to trace such things. Many had the makers name on the chrono brigde. These though are easy to swap. I have one watch where the maker name and importer ID was added with a dremmel rotary engraver. Even the case.

How were overstock watches returned? Or marked for credit. It is said, especially during the quartz crisis, that there was a lot of overproduction and watches flooded the markets bringing prices way down. Suspect most of these though were pin levers. Is that why one finds so many missing back cases?
 
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I always assume the watches were stolen, gold cases melted down and numbers drilled to avoid tracking. Most of the time all the numbers are obscured. Not just two