Hi, am relatively inactive in posting, though an active reader.

I would like to commemorate a major life event with a vintage stainless steel Omega Seamaster de Ville. Budget is relatively modest but better an excellent example for more money than an average one. With original bracelet if possible, even though I will generally wear with a leather strap.

I have found two auctions in the UK which caught my eye, and wanted to ask fellow OFers’ advice, especially as to redials. Neither seller has photos of the movements, and the seller of the automatic doesn’t know what the movement is (I suspect a 550-range), but can’t take further pics as the watch is with his jeweller.

The seller of the manual claims (doesn't say automatic on the dial; better-quality photographs) it is a 600 or 601 but also no photograph of the movement. For what it’s worth, both sellers are helpful and responsive, and both claim to have known the original owner. I must say that I wonder whether the manual has a redial, simply because I have not seen vertical brushed dials, usually starburst or linen dials when looking.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OMEGA-SEAMASTER-DeVILLE-MANS-WATCH-in-very-good-condition/283268588362Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Omega-Seamaster-De-Ville-Automatic-Circa-1967/273557335830Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

Photos added after suggestions from some posters!

I wonder whether in these watches there is an advantage to an automatic over a manual (I know the 550 and 560 series are legendary, but not so sure about the 600/601). This watch won’t be flipped so want to get it right.

Thanks so much for any advice. I do follow omega forums and watchuseek quite closely, so am not a complete newbie, but certainly no expert.

Thanks in advance.

 

Hi,

your chances to get answers here are better if you post pictures rather than links.



I have a vertical brushed Constellation, I think they are quite rare

This one doesn't look good to me, Trtium Ts are missing and "Omega" seems to have wrong font.

Pictures of the other one are not very good, at least this has the Ts.
I'm unshure if the indices have lume dots. If they don't have the hands are wrong because they are lumed.

These BORs are not so hard to find so this shouldn't be a main argument.

Maybe more important than 500 or 600 movement is the service situation, it might be neccessary to spent 200 Pounds on a fresh service.

Hope that helps, take care

 

I hate links

 

I thought the dial on the first one looked ok. Can't see anything wrong with the script, and SM De Villes do not always have T's. The BOR is IMO a fake but seemingly with real end links. Real BORs do come up but are about £100.

The dial on the second one also looks ok to me. The second photo along isn't too bad if you blow it up. Not quite good enough tho' to see if there've ever been lume dots at the end of the markers so as mentioned, the hands are in doubt. The movement will be a 552 or possibly a 550.

 

Hello,

Thanks so much for the advice--not only on how to post (I'll post with pics from hereon in), but also on the comments on the watch itself. On the manual watch with the vertical brushing, I take your point on the font and the missing Ts. I've read somewhere that the Ts only became systematic sometime after 1963, but can't be 100% sure. This may well be a good-faith redial. As for the font, I've seen a few with that font (it seems to be for older, pre-1960 Omegas) but given that the Seamaster De Ville was only produced from 1963-1967, either this is a very early model or some watchmaker made some adjustments over time. Something for me to think about, I suppose.

Thanks for the valuable advice on the BOR and the service: both claim to have been serviced two years ago but may not have documents to support, so I'll bear that in mind as you're right-- a proper service can be quite dear.

I really appreciate the thoroughness of your reply.

 

I've changed my listing--hope it improves responses!

 

Hello, much appreciated--I think there i something about the Tritium worth looking into--I think you're right that it's not a sure thing in respect of authenticity. Do you mind me asking why the BOR looks like a fake--and is that on the first one that you're referring?

Regarding the second watch, I need to reflect a bit; the owner can't post further photos and though the photos are 'ok', they're just not as sharp and clear--e.g. I can't make out the blemish the owner himself has said exists at the 8 o'clock mark. Thanks, though, for the invaluable trust you put in me for the watch--I really appreciate it. Any thoughts on 550 v 552?

 

I don't like the way those BOR links on the first watch hang. On the fakes, they don't fall loosely but "stick" at different angles as they catch on each other. Original BORs are freer and tend to fall more straight. (I hope this makes sense; I am writing it after drinking wine...) I also don't like the brushed finish on the clasp and the lack of a number on it, but this is not always wrong as US made ones don't always have it. Either the end links are off a real BOR that got broken, or I am wrong about it being a fake.

552 is the standard calibre for the auto no-date SM De Villes, but those for the US market should be the 17 jewel 550 calibre. Something to do with US excise duties.

As @Passover said, there is doubt about the hands on the second watch and uncertainty about the Omega font on the first. I think it looks ok but am not certain and I would not want to recommend something just on an opinion. When there is doubt I usually find it best to move on.

 

Thanks @Edward53 for the eagle eye--that's great to know about the BOR and I'll be watching out for it (and it makes perfect sense--also to someone drinking wine now!). The brushed finish could just be a re-polish, perhaps? But I'm inclined to let it go given the lack of number, as this is a UK-based watch. Thanks also for the advice about the 552 and the 550.

Thanks @Edward53 and @Passover for your advice on the hands on the second watch. Indeed if there is doubt, perhaps best to move on--the seller might be unaware that a watchmaker performed some surgery on the watch!

You chaps are splendid with your advice. I'm really grateful. I think I'll let these pass and try again if something else comes along. For now, a heartfelt thank-you.

 

When is your major life event? If you have a little time, you can certainly get a nice watch for the £500 range you seem to be working in. Keep an eye here on the Private sales but remember that, if from outside the EU, you will probably pay 22% import duty etc.

From a usability point of view, I'd always take the auto over the manual (others may have a different opinion). Changing hats, from a watchmaker's point of view, the auto is another complication to the base movement so, not desirable in that sense. I charge about 25% more to service an auto over a manual and, I think that's fairly typical.

The 550 series (550-565 and 750-752) shares a lot of common parts with the 600 series (600-613) as they are from the same base parts. They are both quality movements and share (depending on variant) a lot of the same train. The train is that which is running your watch and consists of the following, just comparing a 552 and a 601:

Barrel - different as one is a manual and one is an auto.
2nd wheel - both are 550 parts so, the same.
3rd wheel - different but, there's a reason for that outside of this discussion.
4th wheel - both are 550 parts so, the same.
Escape wheel - both are 550 parts so, the same.
Pallet fork - both are 550 parts so, the same.
Balance - both are 550 parts so, the same.

You won't go wrong with either but, expect to pay more for the auto as they are, usually, more desirable.

Cheers, Chris

 

Thanks so much for this, Chris. We've adopted a baby--that is the life event. Thank you ever so much for the watchmaker's perspective. I think I'll start looking on the private sales on OF as well, as the eBay ones I find are often by people who know little about watches, or there are obvious issues. And thanks for the rich information on the 550/560 series and the 600/601--I'd had no idea that they were somewhat related and it helps to understand the value of an auto. It won't be the only watch, so in that respect a manual is not a problem (they'll both need to be wound), but I do want to get something a bit 'special', or at least, a quality variant.

This is all part of my education as a WIS, so I'm very grateful for all the helpful advice.

 

That's a nice thing to celebrate! Be careful buying from outside of EU as you will pay about 22% import duty - that's against the declared value plus postage. Definitely safer to buy from here. At least it doesn't have to be for a particular day so you can take your time.

Cheers, Chris