Seamaster 60 USA version 563 or 565 caliber?

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I am feeling a bit gutted as an American hobbyist that the American watches seem to get downrated 17 jewel movements. Is this generally correct? Does anyone know if the US version of the Seamaster 60 Big Crown 166.027 is 563 caliber?
 
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Tariffs have been a pain for more than just a few months.


But am I correct in understanding that American watches generally received downgraded 17 jewel variants?
 
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But am I correct in understanding that American watches generally received downgraded 17 jewel variants?
Yes but not exclusively
 
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I assume that you are referring to watches imported into the US, not "American watches." In many cases during certain eras, Swiss auto-winding movements imported into the us had fewer jewels to save on import duties. "Gutted" feels like an overreaction. If you want a watch with more jewels, you can probably find one. Watches have moved around the world quite a bit in the last 60 years. Also, a watchmaker can often add jewels to replace bushings.
 
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I assume that you are referring to watches imported into the US, not "American watches." In many cases during certain eras, Swiss auto-winding movements imported into the us had fewer jewels to save on import duties. "Gutted" feels like an overreaction. If you want a watch with more jewels, you can probably find one. Watches have moved around the world quite a bit in the last 60 years. Also, a watchmaker can often add jewels to replace bushings.
It just seems like as someone building a collection in the US that we got in inferior stock. Like, the majority of our watches are going to be less good.
 
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It just seems like as someone building a collection in the US that we got in inferior stock. Like, the majority of our watches are going to be less good.
It really isn’t a huge deal. The jewels are in the auto works. I haven’t seen it really impact the operation of the watch. You can swap out the auto works if so desired (I wouldn’t).
 
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It just seems like as someone building a collection in the US that we got in inferior stock. Like, the majority of our watches are going to be less good.
In that one respect, that's true, for automatic watches from a certain era. But every watch has its own condition issues that you need to consider, and this is just one of them. In many cases, the movement will operate fine with the bushings instead of jewels, so it may not even be an issue. If you prefer a fully jeweled example, you can hunt one down.
 
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This is pretty interesting. I guess in most cases the eliminated jewels are in the winding system and it doesn't matter so much and may actually be advantageous. It still doesn't feel great to be on the wrong side of a paywall with the watches as designed being on the other side of it.

I am never going to buy a new watch and my interest is watches under $3000 so this tariff will affect a lot of what I look at.
 
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Well, at the time the idea was to help protect domestic American watch manufacturers. After all, wristwatches were a pretty important military technology and you wouldn't want your army to be dependent on foreign suppliers. Looking at Hamilton, Bulova, and Ball today, though, I guess we can see how that turned out.
 
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Of course, some manufacturers (e.g. Seiko) didn't use jewels in the autowinding system, regardless of domestic or export. So quite honestly, this is a common situation, and jewels are often available as 1-to-1 replacements for the bushings.
 
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But am I correct in understanding that American watches generally received downgraded 17 jewel variants?
In some cases, they did. However, I think this had more to do with how a particular model was marketed in the U.S. and the price points vs. other competitors.

You have to remember that prior to 1970, you had hundreds of watch companies, from Switzerland, USA, Japan, Germany and other countries producing watches in the mid-market price points. At that time, that could be anywhere from $50 to $500 (again, 1970 and earlier dollars).

Tariffs on imported watch movements were not charged on the first 17 jewels, but if a movement had more that 17 jewels, the tariff applied to all the jewels, including the first 17, that would otherwise be tax-free. So let’s say that the total import tax on a steel cased watch was $10. This doesn’t sound like much today, but if the watch was competitively priced at $100 retail, that’s a big cost. If an importer could avoid that by downgrading the movement a bit without affecting selling price, that’s 10% saved. That’s a big savings where margins at the wholesale level were probably 15% or less.

A lot of Swiss watch companies would sent 17 jewel versions here a raw movements, have their importers purchase US made cases and utilize US watchmakers to adjust and case the watch. Omega, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Girard Perregaux, Longines and even Rolex did this. Some movements would be marked “Unadjusted” to avoid this tariff, yet in fact they were adjusted, but it was done here in the U.S. This is sometimes called “National Production” and you’ll see it referenced here quite a bit.

You should read this series of articles with illustrations of how this was done with respect to LeCoultre watches sold in the U.S.

https://blommanwatchreport.com/2019/11/21/jaeger-lecoultre-and-the-u-s-market-part-3/

American companies like Hamilton, Gruen, Bulova, Elgin and Waltham started importing Swiss movements (especially automatics, since the U.S. companies were notoriously slow to develop their own) after WWII and did much the same thing.

The U.S. was not the only country with high tariffs on imported watches. France, UK, Spain, Argentina, Brazil and Australia had similar taxes. But only the U.S. had this system based on 17 jewels, and since it was the largest market in the world, many of the Swiss watch companies danced to the same tune.

Hope this helps with your understanding of why U.S. movements may be different for some vintage watch brands.

gatorcpa
 
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Just another point of view on the case. All the stuff commented before this posts is also through and more specifically an answer to your question.

Don't forget thats not uncommon with watches like the Seamaster 60 and 120 that movements have been swapped somewhere in the past. I own a Seamaster 60 and a Seamaster 120, the 60 has the 565 movement but my Seamaster 120 has a 561 movement.

In the past watchmakers weren't held on the leash by Omega regarding services. So its possible that some enthousiastic watchmaker thought: hey, that 561 fits and its a 'better' movement (561 had chronometre specs and 565 didnt), lets just swap the movement.

Could also be the case for your specific question. But i agree that the other answers are more to the point.