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  1. Tatu Jan 4, 2018

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    Hello,

    Been looking for a while to purchase "pre-bond" Seamaster 200m Automatic (Ref 368.1042). Is there any reason not go for it in general? "Expensive or tricky" to service? No spares available etc? I love the looks but honestly I don´t have any idea about the movement 1111 (ETA 2892-2). So all the tips are highly appreciated. :)

    There are a lot Quartz versions available but it´s not my cup of tea at the moment - want to have a "real deal" so to say. Unfortunately Automatics are not so often for sale and the condition is quite beaten up most of the time.

    What you guys think about this one, once again judging by the low quality pictures: Price is around 1500$/1300€, but negoatiable. Recently serviced and/or checked (new seals and so), unfortunately the crown is changed as well and even though it has an Omega logo it´s not original to my eye. How diffucult it is to I find original watertight crown? Serial 49552xxx, dates it 1987-1989? Mercedes hands, they look original. Dial is ok, markers are yellowish - tritium is not redone to my eye. Case is not polished. Watch has an original metal band and also original box and papers.

    Let´s see if I manage to get better pictures from the seller.


    Cheers
    Tatu


    IMG_3034.jpg
     
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  2. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 4, 2018

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    I have had a couple of these and did a lot of the research leg work a while back. Your date estimate is about right, the Merc hands ones were the earliest, the casebacks are also a tell as there were 3 versions and 3 case numbers, 41/42, 51/52, 61/62 for the autos depending on size. As you say the autos are much rarer than the quartz ones and the full size rarer than the mid in my experience. Yours looks at first glance to be a full size but the case number you quote is for the middie if my memory serves, I think that is in fact a 368.1041 as I am sure it is the 40mm full size auto, based on the date window placement. Servicing is not too tricky unless you need parts. The 1111 movement is an earlier versions of the 1120 ie it is 2892 ETA based so is widely understood but some of the parts and finishes are unique. The crown on this looks correct for the later sword hands versions but the early ones were lobed, there is some cross over though so nothing is set in stone as the watch evolved over about 6 years from 1987-1993.

    In my experience bezels on these are un-replacable short of a new case so that is one of the red flags, this looks Ok but I think the price you quote is a little high. That isn't the nicest dial patina I have seen to be honest. I would put a mid size auto at around £750-1000 and a full size at £800-1100 depending on condition, box papers etc.

    Here is my slightly later 368.1051 full size auto, now moved on:
    IMG_6324.jpg
     
    Edited Jan 4, 2018
  3. Tatu Jan 4, 2018

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    Thanks, great points. I agree that the asking price is a bit too high but I haven´t seen the watch in real, just couple of pictures. Movement number I picked from the papers.

    Found this from the other forum:

    1st and 2nd Generation?
    It has been said that the Pre Bond line has a 1st and 2nd generation. Some have suggested that the distinction is based on hand sets i.e. Mercedes vs Sword. I believe that the difference is in the crowns and the clasps.

    Because the both handsets have been found on both crown/clasp styles, and the fact that the hands are easily changed, I hesitate to use them as a definer of the two generations. Since the crown/clasp combos exist in one combo in the beginning and a second combo towards the end, I find this to be the main distinction
     
    Edited Jan 4, 2018
  4. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 4, 2018

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    In that case the papers may not be right. I am 99% sure that 41 is full size, 42 is mid size and the watch you show is a full size like mine. I honestly think you can do better than that one, full size autos are rare but not like hen's teeth rare.

    FYI here is my full size quartz model, this one a 398.1061 so the latest of the variants, notice how the date window is different on the quartz vs the auto, this is one of things which makes identifying them from pictures hard:

    IMG_6948.jpg
     
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  5. Tatu Jan 4, 2018

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    Thanks a lot @padders. Very helpful information.

    This one is nice to my eye... but that bezels hit and asking 1500£ is a no go.
     
  6. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 4, 2018

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    Yes that price is rather optimistic, a dealer might ask that but I would want it at nearer a grand and bear in mind there should be an applied logo on that bracelet clasp, probably steel originally (though some versions have a gold logo or just engraving). That bezel is obviously scuffed but you will do well to find too many minters out there these days I am afraid so may have to settle for a little patina, very few I have come across are any better than the 2 I show above. Don't pay Bond SMP or 2254 money for one of these, they just aren't as nice a watch and should be priced accordingly.
     
    Edited Jan 4, 2018
  7. Tatu Jan 4, 2018

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    @padders You are right about the reference number for 368.1041. I mixed it to movement number what stands on the papers
     
  8. khanmu Jan 4, 2018

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    At risk of being told of for pointing to another forum, there is a fairly comprehensive article here about all the combinations of finishes, sizes and movements.

    http://forums.watchuseek.com/f45/fa...bond-series-316149.html#/topics/316149?page=1

    Both of the ones advertised look optimistic on pricing - I picked up a large auto solid gold bezel for $1500 on eBay back in Sept...not back home until the weekend, can send photos then.
     
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  9. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 4, 2018

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    I think Tatu spotted the WUS article already as he quotes from it above in post 3. It is top of the search results if you Google 'Omega pre bond 200m' so it is easy to come across. It is just a pity that the all important PB links on there are now dead.
     
    Edited Jan 4, 2018
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  10. w154 Jan 4, 2018

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    If you find a nice one with a problem dial I might be able to help, although I suspect it's a pre-production prototype dial as it came with a load of other proto parts from the estate of an ex-Bien employee...

    219001-58215eb0499bd5b362127354568267c1.jpg
     
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  11. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 4, 2018

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    Nice, the text on that dial looks gold so it may be for one of the bi-metal versions like khanmu mentions above, though it is pretty hard to tell from a pic. The plots look bigger then those shown above (which all have a kind of halo) too so perhaps it is a prototype as you say.
     
  12. w154 Jan 4, 2018

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    From memory it was gold, so OK it's probably not going to help @Tatu
     
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  13. Tatu Jan 4, 2018

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    Hunt goes on - if someone has "pre bond", automatic, full size (1988 prefered) for sale. Drop me a line. ;)
     
  14. uwsearch Jan 4, 2018

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    I'm a seamaster addict, but never been attracted by PreBonds. Calling a watch by the name of the next generation means that it did't make history. And I don't like mercedes hands on an Omega. Anyway, I got offered a like-new big size auto 1111 caliber ref 368.1061 movement 49.544.XXX recently.
    I bookmarked the WUS thread for a long time but couldn't find anything about 368.1061...
    Any clue?

    Capture.JPG
     
    Edited Jan 4, 2018
  15. Tatu Jan 4, 2018

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    I would not put it that way - from designer point of view influence of Pre-Bond is clearly visible in Bonds, so they definitely made history.

    About the details of the watch, can´t really help.
     
  16. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 4, 2018

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    That is a nice and tidy looking one. The WUS thread is great but it isn’t infallible. It talks about 2 generations of PreBond but as I said in my 1st post there are in fact 3 case numbers in use and I think 3 very different case backs on them. The 1061 is the latest of the 3. The second watch I show is the quartz 1061, the first is an auto 1051. What do you want to know?
     
    Edited Jan 4, 2018
  17. Tatu Jan 5, 2018

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    Is it common that trinium on hands ages so differently compared to markers on the dial? Seen a lot almost brown yellow markers but the hands are still relatively white.
     
  18. uwsearch Jan 5, 2018

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    A comprehensive table of reference number, caliber number, picture of the watch, size, production date,... and all you know about it !!!
     
  19. padders Oooo subtitles! Jan 5, 2018

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    Yes that it is very common that the dial markers fade much more than the hands. You often see them with yellow plots and greener hands. The later SMP Bond watch with the tritium dial (up to 1997) did the same and those too often look mismatched. The one uwsearch shows is pretty atypical and very nice, assuming it is original.

    Ha not much then. You may need to ask the seller for specific info on that watch but based on what you have provided I would put the date at around 1991. The pic looks right for a 1061 which would have come with sword hands and the knurled not clover crown, probably the one piece seahorse caseback too. If the price is right, in your shoes I would be tempted.
     
    Edited Jan 5, 2018
  20. uwsearch Jan 5, 2018

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    I'm not talking about my watch, I thought it would be nice to have a table giving the details of all models..
    Btw, I'm not in a buying process, price was good enough to buy it straight away.
     
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