It is not about being unscrupulous - it's just sensible business.
Please show me someone on this forum whohas gotten one of the most desirable rolexes lately, as a result of signing up on a "normal" waiting list without being a AAA customer...
This is just not happening.
and still Rolex is delivering 1 million pieces to market yearly....
AD's are more than happy to sell to gray dealers at + 50% and I would do the very same if I were them.
So what you are saying is that all AD’s sell their stock to the grey market and that anyone wishing to buy a Rolex SS sport watch cannot do this through an AD, the only way is via the grey market and at prices way above RRP?
So what you are saying is that all AD’s sell their stock to the grey market and that anyone wishing to buy a Rolex SS sport watch cannot do this through an AD, the only way is via the grey market and at prices way above RRP?
That's what I'm saying indeed... The only people I know who have been able to get a sub or Daytona lately outside of the gray market are people who have a long and expensive history of purchasing at the same shop...
Now granted this might not be the case of 100.0 percent of the AD's... 99% sounds like a more reasonable estimate 😉
I remember some time ago, going to an auction that featured NOS Rolex watches. Each watch had a reserve price on it, and if the watch didn’t reach the reserve, guess who was there to retrieve it? Yup! The dealer!
Whilst some of what is being said by esteemed OF members maybe true to a degree, I struggle to comprehend how a dealer network exists if all the stories written are true. All AD’s cannot be doing this as surely Rolex would simply pull their watches from the dealer?
Rolex is not a stupid company, if it could see that AD’s were selling their products to a grey market at inflated prices only for the grey market to sell at a further inflated price why not just deal with a grey market and reap more profit, create a new dealer network?
Whilst I am sure that there are legitimate shortages of SS watches in AD’s I am convinced that SS sport models can be obtained, all that is required is a little patience.
Rolex is not a stupid company for sure - they do have two big differences vs. its competitors that *could* explain their seemingly absence of reaction to the current situation
1- It's privately owned. No need for "more" every year, no shareholders to please every quarter, no targets to beat, no stock price to influence, etc... so not as much of a sense of urgency than the LVMH, Richemont, Swatch Group of this world...
2- It seems (again, hard to confirm for sure, but strong signs/indicators seem to confirm this) that real estate is actually a bigger piece of The Wilsdorf Foundation (that owns Rolex)'s BS that watch manufacturing. For the record (now - THIS is official) Rolex is the biggest real estate owner in the Geneva Canton. If you know a bit about Geneva, it says a lot.
I can also imagine that, just like Stern recently confirmed for PP (another privately owned company... there's a pattern 😉 ) that he will not open the tap for more volumes on his steel sport pieces, Rolex, which again is not in a "we've got to hit next quarter's numbers" mode, might also assess whether the current, silly-high demand for its steel pieces is sustainable... and if it isn't, and is just a fad (which doesn't seem unreasonable), whether it would make sense to invest in more capacity - only to risk having it sit idle in a few years from now... which could be a risk another company might want to take - but not one that is already swimming in money AND doesn't have greedy shareholders to please more than the competition 😀
I don't have the keys to this but I've talked to a few locals who know more than I do, albeit in a fragmented manner, and what always comes out is "Rolex doesn't need the money and they are not in a rush". So, not as eager to crackdown on the big gray monster as the swatch group, for instance - who did mention this prominently in their latest earnings release. I understand they ARE tightening the bolts on the network, though, but not with the level of energy you would expect from one of the publicly listed brands/groups.
In the end, I also believe what I see. I walk past a few Rolex shops (mostly Bucherer's) in downtown geneva on a regular, if not daily basis... there is ZERO steel sport piece in ANY of them. And this has been the case for months, now. Every international city/airport I've visited over the past couple of years, I've checked the rolex shelves. Same thing, no steel. Granted, this could be a bad statistical sample, but in litterally hundreds of occurences of window-browsing, I can only report ZERO sighting of a sub and/or GMT for months now...
... Still, I can buy a brand-spanking new sub or a GMT in a matter of minutes on C24 if I'm ready to spend silly amounts over retail, there are hundreds of them there all the time. And again, this has been the case for months. Lastly, the only folks I know who were able to land a dayto or a sub from the regular trade over the past couple of years are rolex serial buyers... Surprisingly, for them, there doesn't seem to be that long of a waiting list. 😉
The only piece that is much much harder to infer is whether Rolex has constrained the supply for real to dry the grey market... this would require some serious insider information!
Just to clear things up - I'm not upset... I'm just mesmerized by this very, very peculiar sales dynamic and if I could buy some Rolex shares, I would!
With our ability to window shop on-line there is in reality very little need for Rolex (or any other maker) to have watches in store for the casual purchaser, they have a very good website that allows you to build your dream watch, you can then see your AD and ask for one to be built for you, the more popular the model/specification the longer the wait.
The issue for me is that everything in this era is about having something 'now', we cannot wait, we must get it today, this minute, immediately, we are impatient. And that is why we are willing to buy at well above retail and fund a market that really shouldn't be there if we could only show a bit of restraint and patience.
But, in the end money will talk and if someone is willing to pay over the odds and someone is willing to part with an item for a profit then deals will continue to be done and the market will expand, as a result watches will become harder to come by.
IMHO the issue doesn't stem from the maker, it stems from us and our need to have something now.
In this day and age we are so used to getting everything we want when we want it. Waiting for a product itself isn’t bad. I kind of admire Rolex that they follow their own reasoning and raison d’étre in this profit oriented world of ours. It’s just watches, not food or water. Should Rolex produce more steel models because demand has gone up? I’m fine if they don’t. I don’t mind waiting. Should they do something about AD’s selling to grey marked dealers? That would be nice.
Sorry, if I were Rolex, I would do absolutely nothing.
Exactly right. This situation helps Rolex sell more gold models, according to a recent article by Hodinkee. Makes sense in terms of basic market economy.
Only if you assume that every potential Submariner etc. customer who cannot have one of those buys a non-steel Rolex instead. My guess is that Rolex loses a fair amount of customers to other brands, as a gold Datejust isn't a substitute for a steel Explorer to all customers, while a Seamaster 300 might be. Also, only if the higher demand on gold watches causes the stores to order more of those with Rolex thus ramping up the production figures, will Rolex make more money. Unsold stock is only an issue for the dealer, not Rolex.
Only if you assume that every potential Submariner etc. customer who cannot have one of those buys a non-steel Rolex instead. My guess is that Rolex loses a fair amount of customers to other brands, as a gold Datejust isn't a substitute for a steel Explorer to all customers, while a Seamaster 300 might be..
I agree. Not every potential SS Sub customer buys a precious metal Sub. As for the loss to other brands, I also agree, but I would be really surprised if Rolex hasn't calculated and figured out that gains on selling models far outweighs the losses. Another point not discussed so far is that it is ANTICIPATION of buying a Grail watch that for many customers is more precious than the purchase itself. Read up on dopamine spike (=reward for the brain) during craving phase of a habit in cue-craving-response-reward phase ("Atomic Habits" by James Clear). That would explain why people are willing to wait for years to get a particular Rolex model. I would be very surprised if Rolex does not know that. They do and use that to their advantage.
With our ability to window shop on-line there is in reality very little need for Rolex (or any other maker) to have watches in store for the casual purchaser, they have a very good website that allows you to build your dream watch, you can then see your AD and ask for one to be built for you, the more popular the model/specification the longer the wait..
they would still need hubs throughout the world. but doing this would allow rolex to take control over everything and eliminate AD's should they wish.
can't really see them doing it as it's quite a bit of work for less outlets to prolly get peeps the watches
I'll speak for myself only. I'm on a waitlist for a Batman with a dealer who seems sincere in wanting to get me the watch. Now, whether that happens or not time will tell. I've been told that they will ask me for a deposit should I be put in a firm line to get one. If that doesn't happen by the end of the year (the deposit request, not the actual watch delivery) then I will--no hard feelings or bitterness--simply go buy the speedmaster that I've pushed back until the Rolex situation resolves itself and then probably a Planet Ocean GMT next year.
