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Rolex 5512 gilt: opinions please?

  1. MaiLollo Feb 3, 2018

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    Calling Rolex experts here: I'm really not, and a friend likes this 5512 very much.
    The spiderish gilt brown dial looks very cool, not sure if the case was reworked or not, I'd say yes but I'm unsure... the serial checks out for an early 5512.
    0beb7119-5bdc-4409-8089-30d1de00f7d1.jpg 6cd49a5b-090f-4b46-8f76-8f8e937702de.jpg 498d8a8f-c395-4eaf-bc2e-119e13e18787.jpg
    The seller is a nice, knowledgeable guy. Not sure about price either, but looking at the other ones on C24 it looks like an OK price.
    Anyway, let me know if you have thoughts on this one!
    Thanks

    https://www.chrono24.it/rolex/submariner-5512-4-lines-gilt--id4394549.htm
     
  2. thatonewatchdude Feb 3, 2018

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    i would also suggest movement shots if you have any so the community can be of more assistance.
     
  3. onthedial Feb 3, 2018

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    @MaiLollo
    If you’re asking if the case has been refinished, yes it has been. I would imagine that the seller can provide your friend with the details, if asked.
     
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  4. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 3, 2018

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    The problem also is the list coming picture, which is the first one, has the wrong white balance. So... The background on that picture should be the same as on the others but as you can see it appears yellow. That affects drastically the watch appeal, for the better.
     
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  5. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 3, 2018

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    I would have to go home and actually rebalance on the computer, but look what happens If i recalibrate on the phone ( which won't be accurate either) 1C81C472-9A6D-4DB5-BD7C-B692E2DEBB06.jpeg
    So I would ask for untouched pics or even better, considering the price this probably goes for, ask for a videoconference through facet time or Skype or WhatsApp where you can evaluate the watch on even light life. I offer that service for all watches I sell, including the ones I have for sale now on forum. These are expensive babies and the least the seller can do is present the watch untouched.
     
  6. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 3, 2018

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    Here is the adjustment made by white balancing against the background. I't a little overexposed but the balance is close to the other 2 shots. All of a sudden a few things become a little suspect. The beat on bezel, the hand difference, of course the spider dial etc. Definitely enough there to ask for an in person review or a set of pics that are balanced equally and not retouched or video.

    I don't have anything against adding appealing photos to a sales pitch, but if the only dial pic is either tampered with or clearly out of balance a red flag is raised. Every sales pitch should have at least a couple of more Technical pictures...specially at the premium these watches carry.

    If you do get those pics please post them, I'm curious as to how close I am getting.

    Good Luck! Screen Shot 2018-02-03 at 10.23.23 PM.png
     
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  7. MaiLollo Feb 4, 2018

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    Thank you very much, Sergio!
    A meeting will be set up with the guy, which is pretty confident about the watch (as he's had it for 20+ years). We'll ask the untouched pictures.

    The only gripe I have is with the fact that he said the case is unmolested whereas it has been refinished. It's not a bad job, but I'd really expect full disclosure, as it can impact the price quite severely. So I'm wondering what else could be "untouched".

    Plus, I didn't notice the background color, that was cool :)
    I like the hands however, I've seen quite a bit of early gilt dialed subs that have hands which have turned this color, so I'm more confident when I see dark-lumed hands like these vs brand new looking hands with matching patina...
     
  8. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 4, 2018

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    He may simply believe that the case was never "molested" (# metoo) although it's hard for anyone to believe you would get that polish lug edge without polishing it. But give him a chance to come around.

    On hands etc I absolutely don't make a judgement against appeal, taste or value, I merely note that you need to be able to see them on better balanced pictures to evaluate your position.

    I personally don't like spider dials, or most spider dials. Some People love them. Also see if once you get better pics you can get a deeper look into the dots etc as some have some ( very normal) wear.

    Again it's al about you having as much to evaluate as possible.
     
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  9. TTG Suffers from watch FOMO. Feb 4, 2018

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    If I may comment, on the use of the term spider dial in this particular case (no pun intended).
    A spider dial is "usually" referred where the paint cracks and gives such an effect. This can not be corrected unless repainted.
    But just for information to the OP, gilt dials have a lacquer finish and what you are seeing on this dial is the cracking/shrinking/etc. effect.
    These dials can be re-lacquered. I have done so to a beater gilt dial and the result was incredible. It completely disappears.
    Now, I would not go out to buy a $20k ++++ watch and have this done to the dial.
    As far as the case, I love the loose use of these terms which usually begin controversy - unpolished, unmolested, untouched, etc.
    Let the pictures do the talking and decide if the beef on the case is good for you. Not one that resembles toothpicks or spring bars that could hang your clothes from them sticking out..
    No doubt this particular case was touched up. The pictures are not the best to say without a doubt that it was a complete refresh, i.e., new cuts from a previously bad polishing, or just a clean up to accent the lines again..
    As has been discussed, you definitely need better pictures.
    Good luck with your search..
     
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  10. apm1 Feb 4, 2018

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    The case has been polished at some point but is looks still good to me.
     
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  11. brunik Feb 4, 2018

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    Looks correct for me, my 5513 has the same hands colour
     
    947F7262-4AA5-44FD-9072-6EDAC40E6C1B.jpeg
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  12. MaiLollo Feb 5, 2018

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    Thanks Brunik!
    Very nice 5513 you have there.
    The seller said that in the first pic he had set up the lights in a different way vs the other two pics. My friend & him are going to meet at a well-known Italian dealer to check the details out. I'll post pictures as soon as I have them.
    Not sure it's worth going for, but it's for sure an attractive watch (if the pics weren't too touched up).
     
  13. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 5, 2018

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    I’m sure it’ll be ok. If your friend can check it in person that will seal the deal .

    The issue is a white balance issue. It’s not drastic retouching and indeed a camera will behave on such a way by itself shot to shot of you don’t pay attention to it. Or indeed using natural light versus tungsten etc, but it does affect how the watch is perceived. That is not by itself sign of ill doing
     
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  14. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 5, 2018

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    Also, for what it’s worth. If the goal was to make the dots orange to appeal to the “patina hunters” imo the actual eggshell natural aging is much more appealing and authentic.

    Some of the refusals from Asia come off looking like something out of a nuclear plant.
     
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  15. MaiLollo Feb 5, 2018

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    Yes, I'm not sure the seller an ace with his camera, plus he seemed very open about meeting in person at a vintage rolex "expert".
    I find the patina attractive, without being fake-looking. It looks like an honest dial, that lived 54 years in a tool-watch that was well used.
     
  16. Nobel Prize Spell Master! Feb 5, 2018

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    Look, if he is meeting I person and allowing you to evaluate he is a good guy. So now you have the watch to focus on.

    Shoot a couple of pics and post them I’m very curious.

    Best of luck!!!!!
     
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  17. Richard G Feb 7, 2018

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    MaiLollo, when you go to inspect it pay very close attention to the lume plots. I suspect that they might have been relumed. I have owned an identical watch for about 18 years. Unfortunately mine lookes just like the one you are considering. BUT I had the lume redone right after buying the watch since a lot if it was gone, not thinking much about it at the time. I believe the lume plots should be smaller revealing just a bit of printed white circles surrounding the lume.
    Cheers from Old Europe
    Richard

    here is a nice article on the 5512 gilt compare dial to the last 3 dial-photos
    http://mansfinelife.com/2015/09/02/the-gilt-gloss-5512-submariner-a-review-by-beaumont-miller-ii/
     
    Edited Feb 7, 2018
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  18. MaiLollo Feb 7, 2018

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    Richard, thank you very much for getting back to me.
    Unfortunately I won't make a trip to check the watch out but I'll definetely point out this to my friend
     
  19. TTG Suffers from watch FOMO. Feb 7, 2018

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    The "little white circles" you refer are on the minute track, is that what you have?
    OPs is not..
     
  20. Richard G Feb 7, 2018

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    They are obvious on the circle track dials. But I think that you can just barely make them out the white surrounds on the original T<25-dials as well. Also at the corners of the 3,6 and 9 markers and the triangle at the 12.