Added photos of the box my siblings found. They still haven't gone through the file cabinet that probably has the papers and service records. Also added photos of the vintage gold buckle I won on Ebay. After selling two 10k gold women's links and a plated buckle that came with it, I was +$35 with a free 18k vintage buckle. Hello, First time poster. My father passed away this past February and, of my siblings, I was the only one to request the watch. I am almost certain he obtained it in Europe, most likely France where he was stationed, in 1953. I will include some correspondence with Desmond from the Omega Constellation Collectors blogspot. My father wore the watch regularly until maybe 10 years ago. There was a crack in the crystal and the crown was no longer original. Also, at some point, the dial had been resurfaced. More on that in the attached correspondence. The watch is basically ready and I will probably head into Manhattan sometime next week to pick it up. My primary question here is regarding getting a new strap. Should I get an Omega buckle? Were these most likely issued with a black or brown leather strap? Are any of the NOS Omega straps on Ebay legitimate? Thank you for any assistance. Hi Paul, Thanks for your email. Yes, it's a cal 354 bumper, and it looks in pretty decent condition and has all of its signature chronometer parts. The joy of owning these movements is the feel of a slight thud when one's wrist is turned quickly as the rotor hits the spring. The perlage is genuine and in these early 2652s it was common, as opposed to a more grained inner case back later. 13 million serial dates production to 1952 and so its one of about 5 thousand produced in that year. So your suspicion that it was purchased in '53 is on the money. These are uncommon but I wouldn't say rare. Yes, values for an unserviced watch in need of attention are not high, but when serviced the watch will be worth about 2000 USD. Had the dial been not refinished it would be worth 3000. The reason being that many of these earlier examples have refinished dials because that was the tradition of the time when a watch dial showed any signs of deterioration, and so original dials are beginning to get quite rare. I think you're right about the European purchase. If it had been purchased in the US it would have the initials OXG stamped near the balance wheel assembly. With a decent service and a clean and oil every five years this watch should be able to be passed on to the next generation. In the meantime here's hoping you enjoy the watch and the memories that flow from it. Regards Desmond On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 13:52:12 +0800, Paul wrote: Hello Desmond, I dropped the watch off last week. They sent me the attached photos of the innards. The case back has a perlaged surface. In your essay on gold watches, you indicate, "This is rare and should be a flag for further investigation into the true identity of the case." Does rare impact the value? Based upon Ebay, I was guessing the watch, in its current condition, was worth about $1,000. The serial # is 13424119. Based upon reading your blogs and your answer below, this would be a bumper cal 354, case 2652, 18k gold from 1953, correct? Based upon your gold watch essay, it would appear to be fully Swiss as the the case maker responsibility mark (a key with the number 4 inside) identifies the maker as Antione Gerlache SA, based in Geneva. It also has the "Helvetia" Swiss Assay Mark. They are charging $600 for the servicing, crystal and crown. When I pick it up, I will get a new strap. I remember my dad using many different straps through the years: leather, fabric, metal (the springy expandable mostly, although I am sure he had one with a clasp, too). I will most likely get a burgundy leather band. My dad tended to keep things. I have instructed my siblings to be on the lookout for an Omega box and/or owner's manual. I am hoping they find something. Thank you again for your help. Regards, Paul ----Original Message----- From: Paul Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [Suspected Spam] Re: My Father's Omega Constellation Hello Desmond, Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it. Between the strap and some dirt, I really cannot see the inner portion of the lugs to look for the eagle or the 18k mark. On the rear of one lug, there is a rounded rectangular indent, but I cannot determine a distinct marking within it. Hell, it could just be a pot mark. Based on your information and remembrances of discussions, I am more confident that this was purchased when he was in Europe. He had the good fortune of being able to have my mother with him for about one year. They were able to make many side trips outside of France. I know they took advantage of the currency exchange, sometimes just using the PX. I know he got a top line 35mm camera that way. There are several vintage watch servicers around Grand Central Station. I may go with this: http://www.watchrepairny.com/omega-watch-repair/ . Next time I go into the city, I will drop it off. Thank you again for the advice and I will send photos of the watch after it gets serviced and repaired. Regards, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Mondodec [ Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 11:35 PM To: Paul Subject: Re: My Father's Omega Constellation Hi Paul, Happy to respond to queries like yours. Hard to ascertain without having a look at the inner case back whether this watch a French cased Constellation or a Swiss one, however the case is certain to be 18k. If French there will be an eagle stamped on one of the inside lugs, and if Swiss there will be an 18k mark if legible. The inner case back will also confirm gold content and case origin. The likelihood of your Father having purchased the watch OS is high because in the US The Constellation name wasn't used by Omega until about 1955/early 56 and your watch predates that probably. Fortunately crowns for this model are still available. It has the 2.5 crown pipe size and are crowns still available from Otto Frei in San Francisco - part number #069LA42019. A call to them quoting the model, part number and colour (gold) should produce results. I'm assuming you are sure it is a 2652 as opposed to a similar model 2782? Either way the movement is a bumper cal 354. The reason for the confusion about the dial is that your Dad, having worn the watch consistently (and probably having it serviced every four or five years) has consented to the dial being refinished at some stage. This was quite normal if moisture had caused the dial paint to spot or bubble, whereas today we would say an emphatic no to refinishing so as to maintain factory originality. The redial is not too bad at all, and forms part of the character and history of the watch. I would venture that the watch is pretty original apart from the crown and the refinished dial. In terms of bringing it up to speed, I would avoid an official Omega service centre at all costs. They will want to send the watch to Bienne for a very expensive and, in my opinion, less than sympathetic refurbishment. Rather, I would source an independent watchmaker who has worked on Omega vintage and ask him to specifically to either source a crown or replace the crown with one you have obtained, replace the crystal, fit a case back gasket, dis-assemble, clean and oil the movement and regulate the watch. Anything more would compromise its originality, save for the need for replacing movement parts if necessary. I'd probably purchase a jeweller's cloth off eBay and give the case a light clean myself rather than risking it on a watchmaker's polishing mop, which tends to affect the case definition. I don't know off-hand any watchmakers in CT or NY that I could specifically recommend, but I imagine a search of the yellow pages for watchmakers who know their way around vintage Omegas would produce some results. Let's know how you get on Regards Desmond On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 06:36:46 +0800, Paul wrote: Hello Desmond, My father passed away in February and of my siblings, I was the only one that wanted his watch. He wore it everyday since my childhood (at least since 1967) until at least the mid-2000's. It runs but has a crack in the crystal. Also, at some point, the crown was replaced with a non-Omega crown. My belief is that he purchased the watch while stationed in France during 1953 or 1954. It is a gold watch and has the 2652 calibre 354 back. I haven't opened it to determine the gold content or the model. I do know, after searching Google, Bing and Ebay, that I haven't seen that dial without the cross-hairs on a gold watch. Also, did all of the early Constellations have "Swiss" or "Swiss Made" below or around the "6"? This one doesn't and on some of the photos of early Constellations, I cannot tell. Everything else on the dial seems to check out: fonts, alignment, etc. As the crown was replaced with a non-Omega crown, I'm hoping that it wasn't Frankenwatched by the same jeweler. I am looking to get the crystal replaced, the crown replaced, have the watch serviced and get a decent band. My first inclination was to take it to the Omega Boutique in Manhattan (I am in Connecticut) the next time I go into the city. However, the restoration story by Ari Grief has given me second thoughts. I thought it would be worthwhile to shoot you an email to see if you respond. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you in advance. Regards, Paul
This would look lovely on a brown leather strap, it could be either calf leather, lizard, alligator, ostrich, etc... I know that some of these came on a very light, tan elephant leather strap which is now very rarely found. I guess that you are in the US, right? I have good experience with the seller Keleran on eBay, whose straps are both of a nice quality, very reasonably priced and have an understated profile which fit smaller, vintage watches nicely Pick up a couple of different ones and decide for yourself what style you like the most. Regarding buckles, you really have to be careful here. Most of the ones on eBay are blatant fakes. There is a fantastic thread about original buckles on OF, I suggest you go have a look. Welcome aboard
This is the buckle you need. I just purchased one for a gold capped automatic seamaster and I am really happy about it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omega-18-Ka...306210?hash=item1c6e5767a2:g:tUAAAOSw9NdXrH9rPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network Best, Arnaud
Highly unlikely that buckle went with a Constellation. Seamaster, maybe, but not a Constellation. The Constellation was one of the few Omega watches sold in the US market at that time that had a 100% Swiss made movement, was Swiss cased and assembled. Omega paid the import duties on these and included them in the price. The earlier bumper movements were 17 jewels and did not pick up the extra assessment on watch movement with over 17 jewels. That buckle was made in the US and likely used on an Omega with a US made 18K gold case. gatorcpa
I just saw a constellation strap on ebay with a stirrup buckle. The description might not be accurate, but it says that it was meant to be for "Omega Seamaster and Omega Constellation" http://www.ebay.com/itm/Short-17-5m...809497?hash=item1eb65170d9:g:sKUAAOSw~gRVosO1Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network Sorry for the confusion
When I first joined the forums I had just acquired a 40s Omega and picked up a couple of bands. One was a 17mm with a plated stirrup buckle. Maybe this is the style you're after: @ConElPueblo - the band originally was quite stiff, and me being the noob I wore it without applying oil...cracked and it shows :/
This is what I was looking for my seamaster. We just want to know if this is appropriate for a constellation. Gatorcpa definitely knows better than I do and thinks that it is not the right one. I was just trying to find some french advertisment as the watch might be from France and maybe the buckle were not the same for US market. I don't know
Just had a look through AJTT - the English ad is exactly the same: A few advertisements of the 50s with buckles: Change in buckles in the 60s, now a bit squarer. Hope this helps!
The band on eBay is likely an OEM replacement band from the US. The measurement is in inches, that's how I know. Something you would have bought at an AD. I would consider this generic, as it was not specifically meant for any Omega in particular. Since we are comparing advertisements, here's some proof that Seamasters (but not Constellations) sometimes had these types of buckles: Here's the buckle in the ad: Oddly enough, I now use this buckle with a gold Constellation, although I know it's about 10 years older than the watch. They are both 14K. gatorcpa
Thanks gatorcpa. It is always nice to read someone very knowledgeable. I am very impressed. Guiltyboomerang, I would be happy if you could provide the same type of documentation for seamasters from the 50's, but maybe not on this thread. Best, Arnaud
Thank you for the research. I am not sure if there is a conclusion as to the type of buckle. The hour markers on the color ad specifically referencing the 1956 Olympics are what are on my father's watch. The buckle on that appears to have the Omega symbol on top. Is that what is referred to the stirrup or is that a reference to the total shape of the buckle? Would the 18k gold, early Constellations (52-53) have had a solid 18k gold buckle or would it have been gold-plated? Based on my email exchange, even if the watch was bought in France (if so, most likely the PX), it was not specifically manufactured for the French market. Thanks again for the assistance.
well based on the pictures, I would look for something that looks like this one, but maybe not for that price... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Vin...772625?hash=item281f2d9451:g:yjwAAOSwIgNXwu2UPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network gatorpca? do you agree? or am I wrong again?
I think that one is the real deal. Swiss made and 18K. However, not sure if it was meant for Constellation either. You should be looking for something like this in solid gold (this one is plated): A solid gold Constellation would have had a solid gold buckle. However, many people didn't realize this and many were discarded when the bands were replaced. By 1980, gold was so expensive ($800 an ounce) more were melted when it was discovered you could scrap the buckles for more than the price of the original watch. gatorcpa
I love the look of this style strap found in the advertisement. They seem to be difficult to find. They do turn up on Ebay. You might like one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/18mm-Cognac...734113?hash=item1eab67eea1:g:mWgAAOSwyQtVnV49Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network http://www.ebay.com/itm/18mm-BLACK-...809407?hash=item1eb22552ff:g:WPgAAOSwvg9XUv7bPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network I put one of these cognac straps on this rose gold Longines. It is supposed that if a darker brown is desired that the cognac strap could be polished with brown shoe polish. Don't know how that would turn out. Given the price of the straps, one could experiment. Here's another strap that could give a similar appearance. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tan-Genuine...423235?hash=item1eb26bb9c3:g:rywAAOSwuhhXWEccPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
Thank you Dr. Arnoud and GatorCPA. $1,200! If I weren't so lazy, I would insert a .gif of a spit-take. Clearly, having an Omega buckle, or band for that matter, wasn't that important to my father nor most wearers of these watches in the 50's and 60's. I guess I won't get that hung up on it either. There are plenty of the current and vintage gold-plated authentic Omega buckles out there for between $40 to $80 that are similar to what GatorCPA showed above and look similar to that circa 1956 ad. I think I will go in that direction and get a decent leather strap. Probably, all-in for about $80 to $120. I will include some Omega buckle searches in my saved Ebay searches (I collect baseball/hockey memoribilia). If something comes along, I can always get it later. I am not sure about that almost creamy tan color band from the ad. The cognac that Noelekal showed looks nice. I may be more inclined to a textured burgandy. How easy is it to change bands? Do you have to have a special tool? Thanks to all.
I didn't get mentioned! (Cries in a corner) Jokes aside, all watches have lugs which are the end pointy bits the strap/bracelet/band go between. For your Constellation (and for most watches) you have a springbar that goes in between these drilled holes in the lugs. To remove the springbar, you can start with a tool like this: One side has a prong that 'fits' into the end of the springbar. The other end is for pushing springbars out if your watch has a hole on the other side of the lug: To take the springbar out, you gently put the prong side of the tool into the curved slot of the springbar and push down. Do this slowly on a protected surface area. Release the springbar gently so that it drops down onto your work surface. Otherwise it will fly away and you'll spend quite some time looking for it... Put the springbar into your band. There should be a loop at one end of both pieces of the band. Insert the bar through here. Most of the time the springbar should fit snugly through; if it doesn't, it may be too big or the strap loop is too small. If this is the case, you will need to find slimmer springbars or a bigger strap. Making sure that both ends of the springbar protrude out of the band, first place one end into a hole on one lug. You then want to use the prong side of the tool and push gently down on the springbar. This will squeeze it down so you can fit it and the band. Once you have the pin inside the lug gently move it from side to side until you hear it 'click' into place. Then all you need to do is put the other side of the band on! Practice makes perfect with these - however, there are also people who prefer just asking a watchmaker to do it for them. It is an useful skill to learn though! I will have a look for you once I'm free
Good tips there, my only change is to use a bamboo skewer with the end cut square and cleaned up with grit paper. It reduces the chances of deep scratching that the steel tool could cause and I find it easier to use the flat end to push the pin in the springbar down to slide into the lug.
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