Restoring a weird Omega 2503-6

[GuiltyGear]

Hi all. I have this Omega ref. 2503-6, Cal. 30T2PC, that seems to have been assembled out of available parts. A bit of a backstory: my father bought it years ago and kept it in a drawer. He likes Omega and he particularly liked the black dial, but didn't dig any further into its authenticity. When I started taking an interest in watches, he gifted me this one among a couple others.

What I'd like to is to treat it as a project and restore it in its originality, no matter how long it takes. I'm totally aware it doesn't make financial sense. I'm hoping I'll get some advice on it's different parts and possible sources for replacement. What I can tell so far:

The dial: From what I've read, Omega hasn't used "Antimagnetic" on its dials. Well, the movement isn't antimagnetic anyway (that would be a 265, not the 30T2PC). In addition, the dial is too big for this watch, as much so as the "Swiss made" writing isn't even visible. It is however in there, but I didn't remove the bezel when taking photos. Any possible way of sourcing a dial that matches this particular reference?
The hands: While similar to other watches of this reference, they're once again too big for the dial. Minute hand goes almost to the edge. Any way of sourcing a pair of hands?
Crown: A random, non-Omega crown, but this should be far easier to source than the rest.
Movement: The 2503 reference is supposed to have a Cal. 260/265 according to Omega vintage database and other watches of that reference seen online. This one has a 30T2PC. On the other hand, vintage database lists this as starting from 1946 and the movement serial (11XXXXXX) is from 1947. Cal 260, as far as I know, has been used from 1949, so it would make sense for this watch to have the movement it currently has. Any ideas if the movement may have been swapped? Not that it matters that much, as it's still the same basic movement, but just to know.

 

[joe band]

if it is an amalgam of mis-matched parts, and you want to replace them to make it all original... what is the foundation for your build? the case? the dial? the movement? "Your grand Father's.... Watch"... ?

i follow your desire, but still might be easier and cheaper, to buy an original watch, that you source with you dad, than follow your path

 

[GuiltyGear]

J joe band

if it is an amalgam of mis-matched parts, and you want to replace them to make it all original... what is the foundation for your build? the case? the dial? the movement? "Your grand Father's.... Watch"... ?

i follow your desire, but still might be easier and cheaper, to buy an original watch, that you source with you dad, than follow your path

I would probably give the same response to someone asking a question such as the one I am asking in this thread. But you know, some things have emotional value and it doesn't matter what it costs. This is my first Omega, as I said given by my dad, which I'll know I'll value a lot more in the far future. I have plenty other watches now, including Omegas of that era, so it's not a matter of just getting a new one.

Taking for granted that the case, caseback, and bezel are all matched, that's my foundation. Considering what I wrote in my first post, the movement may as well be the original one. Even if it turns out that it isn't, I can always buy a 260 and sell this one for not too much loss. The dial, hands, and crown are what need to be replaced.

 

[padders]

The 260 AFAIK is identical to what you have there so I don’t think it’s worth swapping. If the model was launched in 1946 then he movement fitted is probably correct and original since the 3 digit naming scheme wasn’t used until 1947-8 so that was the correct movement for the first year or two. The dial has obviously been refinished so antimagnetic is just a red herring IMO. I see your point about the hands but ‘Swiss Made’ being hidden isn’t unusual even on fully straight watches so it’s not proof the dial has been changed, it does though as noted look refinished so maybe it was added back on too low.

Edited: Oct 13, 2023

 

[GuiltyGear]

padders

The 260 AFAIK is identical to what you have there so I don’t think it’s worth swapping. If the model was launched in 1946 then he movement fitted is probably correct and original since the 3 digit naming scheme wasn’t used until 1947-8 so that was the correct movement for the first year or two. The dial has obviously been refinished so antimagnetic is just a red herring IMO. I see your point about the hands but ‘Swiss Made’ being hidden isn’t unusual even on fully straight watches so it’s not proof the dial has been changed, it does though as noted look refinished so maybe it was added back on too low.

That is encouraging. I do believe the same about the movement. As for the dial, I wasn't aware it could be the case with original dials to have "Swiss made" hidden. Could it be related to quality control or some other factor?

If someone has any source for finding vintage dials for calibers 30T2/260, it would be great. I've been checking on eBay and I will continue to do so, as I have no rush. Just wondering if there's any other, more specialized service.

 

[Olhenry56]

If you only just received this gift, I suggest waiting some time before changing anything. As you mention, a project like this is about emotional attachment, and I think there's something to say for the configuration as it is since this is what your father liked about it. In other words, it becomes less your father's watch if you swap the dial. "Dad original" condition may have more sentimental value than "factory original" condition. Maybe wear it a few times over the next few weeks and see how you feel, if you haven't already.

 

[GuiltyGear]

Olhenry56

If you only just received this gift, I suggest waiting some time before changing anything. As you mention, a project like this is about emotional attachment, and I think there's something to say for the configuration as it is since this is what your father liked about it. In other words, it becomes less your father's watch if you swap the dial. "Dad original" condition may have more sentimental value than "factory original" condition. Maybe wear it a few times over the next few weeks and see how you feel, if you haven't already.

I agree with that. Initially I wore it gladly. Once I started learning more about watches and figured out the dial wasn't the original, I couldn't wear it anymore. Haven't picked it in 6 months, hence my idea to "fix" it.

I'm also aware that getting a white dial would ruin it. Ideally, I'd look for a black dial and a pair of similar hands (which are common for the era and reference).

 

[alexk105]

Honestly since it's a gift you dont have to worry too much about the dial being original or not.
A watch-snob might point it out but you can easily just tell him that it was a gift and the snob will just feel like a douche. Instead, you have a pretty unique watch that no other omega out there can match.
If it bothers you, go ahead. But I'll quote "Olhenry56" that it won't be the watch you got gifted anymore.

 

[sgk]

GuiltyGear

But you know, some things have emotional value and it doesn't matter what it costs. This is my first Omega, as I said given by my dad, which I'll know I'll value a lot more in the far future. I have plenty other watches now, including Omegas of that era, so it's not a matter of just getting a new one.

Going by this sentiment, I would think keeping the watch just the way you got it from your father would be the best option. However, just my 2 cents

 

[Makesbelieve]

‘The ship of Theseus’ thought experiment comes to mind while reading this thread...

 

[Dan S]

GuiltyGear

That is encouraging. I do believe the same about the movement. As for the dial, I wasn't aware it could be the case with original dials to have "Swiss made" hidden. Could it be related to quality control or some other factor?

If someone has any source for finding vintage dials for calibers 30T2/260, it would be great. I've been checking on eBay and I will continue to do so, as I have no rush. Just wondering if there's any other, more specialized service.

GuiltyGear

I agree with that. Initially I wore it gladly. Once I started learning more about watches and figured out the dial wasn't the original, I couldn't wear it anymore. Haven't picked it in 6 months, hence my idea to "fix" it.

I'm also aware that getting a white dial would ruin it. Ideally, I'd look for a black dial and a pair of similar hands (which are common for the era and reference).

Generally, SWISS MADE is hidden by the installation of the incorrect crystal and retaining ring.

Finding an original black dial in good condition that goes with this movement and fits the case could be the work of many years, and involve purchasing many loose dials and parts-watches followed by a lot of trial-and-error and learning. It could turn into a fun hobby if you enjoy that kind of thing, and you will collect a lot of interesting spare parts.

Another approach would be to develop a network of serious collectors who could possibly put you into contact with people who have already accumulated a large collection of dials. Those people are out there, but they don't generally advertise themselves. If someone like that felt touched by your story and your open wallet, they might be willing to part with an original black dial for your watch.

Of course, an open wallet might be enough, and when you have 200 posts you can start a WTB thread.

 

[numero27]

This is one of my fav 30mm case specially the first versions like this one with the big lugs and small bezel , the movement is correct for this watch , you just have to take the time to find a better dial and the missing screw on eBay, it will not cost that much, very cool project !

 

[SOG53]

We see many threads from recipients of inherited , and even more special gifted watches. Often they have been serviced with replaced or repainted dials and other parts. Memory and gratitude is the usual theme, heartfelt advice is given and received, making even gruff curmudgeons smile.
But this thread feels different. A father gifts a watch he likes to a son, who decides it isn’t good enough for his newly discovered taste “I couldn’t wear it anymore” and decides to rip it apart as a project explaining “But you know, some things have emotional value ..." I was taught that emotional value is expressed with respect and gratitude. But maybe that’s just me….

 

[GuiltyGear]

Dan S

Generally, SWISS MADE is hidden by the installation of the incorrect crystal and retaining ring.

Finding an original black dial in good condition that goes with this movement and fits the case could be the work of many years, and involve purchasing many loose dials and parts-watches followed by a lot of trial-and-error and learning. It could turn into a fun hobby if you enjoy that kind of thing, and you will collect a lot of interesting spare parts.

Another approach would be to develop a network of serious collectors who could possibly put you into contact with people who have already accumulated a large collection of dials. Those people are out there, but they don't generally advertise themselves. If someone like that felt touched by your story and your open wallet, they might be willing to part with an original black dial for your watch.

Of course, an open wallet might be enough, and when you have 200 posts you can start a WTB thread.

I'm treating it as a project, so experimenting is part of it. At the same time, I'm trying to get into basic watchmaking (on a snail's pace), so it's all a process of learning. The collectors you mention are out of my reach right now, not just because I don't know any, but also financially. Paying $500 for a dial, no matter how much you value the watch, is a bit too much.

 

[GuiltyGear]

SOG53

We see many threads from recipients of inherited , and even more special gifted watches. Often they have been serviced with replaced or repainted dials and other parts. Memory and gratitude is the usual theme, heartfelt advice is given and received, making even gruff curmudgeons smile.
But this thread feels different. A father gifts a watch he likes to a son, who decides it isn’t good enough for his newly discovered taste “I couldn’t wear it anymore” and decides to rip it apart as a project explaining “But you know, some things have emotional value ..." I was taught that emotional value is expressed with respect and gratitude. But maybe that’s just me….

I see it differently. I see it as making a service both to the watch and to that emotional value, by trying to restore it to its original form. In my point of view, in "The Ship of Theseus" that @Makesbelieve mentioned, the ship is the same object. That is my way of expressing respect and gratitude, but guess everyone sees it differently.

Just a bit of added context, as I didn't want my original post to be a block of text. I mentioned that I was given this watch among a couple others. Those two other watches are a Navitimer 806 and a Heuer Carrera 1553n, which I got serviced and fixed. The Navitimer wasn't running; the Heuer didn't have the original crown and pushers, which I sourced and installed myself. These were bought by my father a decade or more ago, in his attempt to build a small collection, but he lost interest over time. Now they're working well, are all original, and of course, I value them a lot and will always cherish them. The same sentiment goes to the Omega, but the simple fact is that the lack of an original dial (and hands + crown) do bother me; changing them will make me see the watch differently and value it more. That's all.

 

[GuiltyGear]

After the solid feedback I got in this thread, especially confirming that the movement is most probably original, I'm starting to tidy up the watch. Will update this thread occasionally whenever there's something interesting to post about.

I opened up the watch to better inspect it and also take measurements of the dial and hands. My plan is to do a service on the movement myself, but that is in the near future; have a few more tools to order and build up the courage. Right now, I have to get the crown wheel core screw that's missing. Find out that one of the case screws has been replaced with a smaller one that barely stays in place, so that's for replacement too.



The crown also seems to have been fused in some way to the stem. Maybe the crown had a different thread and converter tube of sorts was used; I'm not really sure. I'll see if I can save the stem.



Finally, a look at the dial on its own.

 

[konung39]

Yes, the Swiss made inscription is indeed present.
In my opinion, the dial is original, but repainted. Apparently because black looks cool.
There is an option for you - find someone who can repaint it again, but more correctly (correct placement of the Swiss made inscription, remove the anti-magnetic inscription, just paint it better)
The crown, it seems, was simply soldered onto the winding shaft... So it didn't fit. You can try to unsolder it, you need to contact a jeweler.

 

[GuiltyGear]

konung39

Yes, the Swiss made inscription is indeed present.
In my opinion, the dial is original, but repainted. Apparently because black looks cool.
There is an option for you - find someone who can repaint it again, but more correctly (correct placement of the Swiss made inscription, remove the anti-magnetic inscription, just paint it better)
The crown, it seems, was simply soldered onto the winding shaft... So it didn't fit. You can try to unsolder it, you need to contact a jeweler.

It's a solid suggestion, something I didn't consider. I'm not sure about the dial being original though, as it has nothing on the back. No writings at all, which I don't know if it's usual with dials of this era.

As for the crown, yeah that seems to be the case. I'll try to unsolder it myself.

 

[konung39]

GuiltyGear

I'm not sure about the dial being original though, as it has nothing on the back.

Are the markers and numbers on the dial attached or stamped?

 

[GuiltyGear]

konung39

Are the markers and numbers on the dial attached or stamped?

I don't have access to it as I'm out of country. But I'm sure it doesn't have through-holes for the markers. They are simply glued to the dial.