I write here so as not to clog the original post here.

@gatorcpa asks where do the moderators draw the line? A good question.

I think common sense easily tells us. It is somewhere between:

Oi! You lot, I bought this Omega in a garage sale and I want $1000 for it but I don't know how to sell it and I haven't got time to read the sales rules and I cant post a sales thread. And I want to make as much money out of as possible, preferable selling it for over market. To one of you.

AND:

Hello Gentlemen, I have this super rare watch and no knowledge can you help me please?

The whole idea of the 200 post rule is to prevent people with nothing to contribute, taking advantage of the environment here. Also it means the mods don't have to wade through requests from sub 200 posters for exemptions - most of which ended up with many issues as they were so unfamiliar the way things are round here they transgressed rules, or at least conventions.

The post that started this was clearly not a back door attempt to sell, it was an honest request for opinions on a watch with serious financial consequences. I am really happy he came here rather than ringing up Christies or a dealer.

It is also a watch I for one am very happy to see shown, rather than have the poster censured.

I think also the members have a pretty good way of jumping on a BDSP. (Back Door Sales Post).

Rules are great, but so also is the common sense needed to know when allowing something for the benefit of all, and indeed the furthering the ethos of the forum.

I would rather see a post like this, than have it banned. And no, I am not trying to buy it, but I sure happy to have seen it.

Isnt that why we are all here? To see watches that make us happy and share information?

 

Agree...Let’s also consider that non native speakers or folks using Google Translate are going to sound awkward. What we need is to see some good pics, a good back story, some initial thoughts based on some research effort and of course a reasonable salutation, please and thanks you. No excusing a back door post ...

 

Clearly I would like to see these watches, but perhaps a more nuanced approach is required. If the OP had not mentioned an intention to sell, apparently there would have been no issue. He could have shown the watch, received any advice the members saw fit to provide, and received offers by DM. Some people may still have considered it a backdoor sales post, but it would have been done with enough subtlety to fall on the right side of the boundary. After all, it would be impractical to ban new members from showing an inherited watch and asking for information.

So I think that the problem emerged because the OP specifically expressed his intention to sell the watch, mentioned the enthusiastic Speedmaster community (wink, wink) and said that the watch needs a better home. Not so subtle, and totally unnecessary. I do think he was probably honestly looking for advice about how to sell the watch, but IMO his post also invited people to make offers.

Coming back to @Spacefruit's question, clearly any time a new member asks how he should sell his watch, the post will de facto constitute a backdoor sales post. For that reason, perhaps this is just not a question that a new member should explicitly ask. Of course, this is a ridiculous and impractical suggestion, since new members generally don't read the rules and so they will just continue to do what they want to do. I suppose the moderators could edit such posts to remove statements about an intention to sell, but the responses would still make the original intention clear.

 

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.
There is no way the mods can stop back door sales posts.

 

So if he removes the line mentioning that he is interested in someday selling the watch, can it still be considered an attempt to subvert the system?

And that raises another issue: I honestly believe, possibly naively, that his key concern was that he use the best and safest channel for selling his watch, which in this case is a very valid concern, given that it could mean the difference in tens of thousands of dollars. How does he go about asking for that very important advice without mentioning he intends to sell at some point?

Some will say it is an attempt to sell outside proper channels regardless of how he words the post, I believe.

The "legal remedy" here is clear. Any post of this kind should not contain an overt intent to sell. Yes, it's a loophole, but loopholes are difficult to close without doing collateral damage to surrounding tissue. That's my resolution.

 

The BDSP seem to fall into two general categories, the ‘barn find’ such as the OP refers to with 2915, and the ‘suspect dealer.’

The first is generally naive and good-natured and the second type knowingly skirting the rules and slightly smelly.
The first type is also typically not a watch enthusiast and not going to hang around to educate themself about rules or watches.
The second type is often best nipped in the bud but others make rare watches available to members by PM.

The ‘barn find’ makes the forum exciting and if a member wants to plunk down 50k with a stranger—-well that’s their gamble.

I say let things stand, is it really that big of an issue?
If a stranger makes one sale by PM, are they abusing the system and clogging up the forum with rebumps?

Not really.

 

drop a yellow flag on the thread and warn members that doing business with unknown new members is risky and that no help will be available should someone choose to make an offer or try to business with the poster of a thread like the 2915-2 thread.

I feel for the mods here as this is a fine line, and not everyone will be happy with the outcome.

 

Great idea.

 

So in the future, each time someone new submits a similar post, mentioning their intent to sell, there will be another yellow flag and the post will be left as-is?

Devil's advocate, only. Exceptions always create slippery slopes.

"I say let things stand, is it really that big of an issue?"
Of course not. In the grand scheme it's a fly speck on a fly speck. The value of the discussion, to me, is in setting a precedent that can be applied consistently. Personally, I'm fine with the post in any form, but I see why it is worth addressing from the point of view of the forum as a whole.

Excellent input from all.

 

for the ones that are maybe not cut and dry. Obvious abuse should be dealt with more harshly, but I think the mods are already good at that... it's more these ones where it is potentially debatable whether the post has value or merit of its own, but still could be considered as crossing the line.

 

This is exactly how I read it. It's not easy when you see a lot of hidden sales posts but, if I found a rare coin or piece of art that I didn't want/need, I'd probably go to a new forum and ask in that way and hope that people would see me as someone asking for help.

Surely those of us who've been here a while would mentally apply the yellow card anyway? If someone drops in from a Google search and thinks they can make a fast buck, they should do some research first and not just trust the new person is legit.

Cheers, Chris

 

It seems as though it is being applied consistently, the mods do a great job.

Sometimes having a policy draws attention where things are best left unsaid.

Although I’m all for this

 

No one can make a back door sale without a back door buyer. If you are the latter and get scammed by the former...

too fg bad for you.

Mods do an great job, but they can’t protect members from themselves.

 

Indeed. @Spacefruit sums up this situation beautifully. The only thing I would add would be ‘and to learn’.

Admittedly, my watch expertise still requires significant polishing. My ability to read a post or article and divine either the rank smell of bullshit or an honest attempt to learn (and mitigate getting burned) is considerably sharper. This case was almost certainly the latter. @oddboy ’s yellow flag concept is both practical and effective, saving mods headaches and time, and us fresh-faced members a potential walletful of money. (Mind you, the only collection of these vintage Speedmasters I will ever have is in iPhoto).

 

I think I can say something about this topic. As a recent member of "the drawer/barn finds guild". I have been lurking for a couple of months trying to digest and gather all information I need for my specific vintage Speedmaster(2998-1?) before I finally revealed my watch on my first post.

I have carefully worded my post as to not appear I'm trying to sell the watch as I'm aware about the rules. But I think newer members seeking information about these kind of watches are genuinely interested in knowing more about them and yes that includes the value of the watch.
I can say for myself that I'm a watch enthusiast but not a Vintage Speedmaster collector and it would have been nice to see the watch in better care eventually.

Seeking ways to properly sell the watch could be misinterpreted as BDSP easily.

I for one would like to have some advice on how to proceed(auction, private sellers..etc) and how to sell, but yeah I'm afraid to ask that question due to this kinds of replies.

 

I think more then a few people are too quick to call back door sales posts.

If someone is new and has basic knowledge that they might have an expensive piece that they plan to sell later how else are they going to introduce themselves?

There has been 2 recently almost exactly the same and I honestly believe the posters that they just wanted info/help.

At the end of the day the rule exists to protect the buyer. If someone wants to pay 50k plus to a unknown that’s on them.

 

Ultimately it seems the mod must decide if the backdoor cowboy’s example is exceptional enough and the post honest enough to warrant an exception and let some members have a crack at it.
And we know you mods have good taste in watches.

 

Another way of looking at it.

I have no problem with, what could be loosely called a genuine family, or inheritance watch.

I have a problem with an estate picker or profit taker, or a lazy person trying to sell a second hand watch.

Of course lastly, a scammer - and I think the situation has been resolved with the 200 post rule.

This is a grey area. As I have said before, genuine people seeking advice which is very hard to come by - where else can they go? Asking how to sell a family 2915 is not the same as the guy who belligerently complains he cannot list his 2015 Aqua Terra.