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  1. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Nov 21, 2013

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    On a leap of faith I rescued this from the bay awhile back, with a horribly refinished "Seamaster" dial.

    The case and hands appeared to belong to a chronometre dialed version of the ref 2254.

    I was pleasantly surprised at how good the case was and even more pleased to find an 18-jewel 30T2 inside.

    Not a whole lot of information on these seems to be out there, so I had an approximation of the dial recreated, every reference I found seemed to differ a bit and I'm pretty happy with the result you see here.

    Two questions I still have, one, regarding the case, this one is a snap back and the ones I've seen marked 2254 are all screw backs, so I'm not exactly sure what this one is, perhaps a civilian version?

    Second question-mark is the serial number which seems a bit late for a 2254, but perhaps is correct for this snap back...

    Comments and any additional insight would be appreciated.

    IMG_4681.JPG IMG_4682.JPG IMG_4679.JPG IMG_4678.JPG IMG_4692.JPG 30T2SC-ChronometreLR.jpg
     
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  2. hockey Nov 21, 2013

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    Very nicely done. The dial turned out excellent!
     
  3. ulackfocus Nov 21, 2013

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    Pretty good job there.
     
  4. mac_omega Nov 22, 2013

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    This is neither a 2254 nor a chronometer!

    It is a ref 2244 and it was delivered mostly in the non chronometer version - only very few were delivered with 30 T2 SC Rg and those had the chronometer inscription on the dial. And the chronometer version did not have the 18 J movement but 16 or 17J.
    The 18 J does not have to do anything with chronometer version.
     
  5. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 22, 2013

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    Hi,

    I agree with the 2244 identification. Mine from around 1943

    [​IMG]

    30T2 Inside, not a chronometer.
     
  6. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Nov 22, 2013

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    So, if this were a chronometer it would have a 30T2 RG, correct?

    Do you think the 18J movement is original to the watch?
     
  7. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 22, 2013

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    I can't say. Mine is a 15 jewels but it hasn't got the central second, if I remember well, only 30 SC have been produced with 18J.
    You're right the chronometer are the RG, with their specific regulator.
     
  8. mac_omega Nov 23, 2013

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    I think an 18J movement is legit for this ref. - they were used with different jewels counts 16, 17 and 18J.
    18J movements are not very common - I have tried to find out more about these 18J movements from Omega in Bienne but the response was not satisfying - I guess they do not know either but won´t admit this fact :p
    regards
    erich
     
  9. mac_omega Nov 23, 2013

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    Sorry Yann, but you are wrong. This is no 2244 as it must have a 30 T2 SC movement - your´s is a different reference - but I have no ref# for it though.
    It may be a CK 2192 but I am not 100%

    regards
    erich
     
  10. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 23, 2013

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    You're right and I noticed it after having written the message, same case but different version of the caliber. I wrongfully had noted it as 2244 having focused on the case photographed in AJTT. Do you have any pic or info on the 2192? I'm getting more confused now because having rechecked in AJTT, the 30T2 SC is referenced as 2254............
     
  11. hoipolloi Vintage Omega Connoisseur Nov 23, 2013

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    This is what Ben DeGeus wrote about the 18 jewel movements. (Purists, 2254 revisited)

    Somewhere between 1993/95 in discussion with people from the museum in Bienne, I was surprised to learn that Omega was able already in 1941 to supply the 30mm movements (both the classic and SC version) with up to 18 jewels. Never heard off or, let alone, seen before anywhere!

    Approx. 1½ years later an 18-jewelled Omega was available at auction in Germany. Could this be real or rather a misprint? Unfortunately the watch could not be opened for a quick check since the 'official' watchmaker was not present at the time. So I bought the watch on condition to be able to return it in case of a possible omission. Once in the car I curiously slid off the back and lo & behold: 18 jewels!

    With the expectation that this had to be something special (very few pieces made), I showed it at the museum but their reaction was hardly luke-warm. "Yes, we' ve made these" they said, "but don' t over-estimate the technical importance, this little extra stone hardly improves the overall quality - the de Luxe Chronometer case (2254) however is very attractive". So, which customer would require this specification at an extra cost? It turned out that Ken Hatch Ltd. the Canadian agent in Quebec had ordered 500 pieces in 1941 (with follow-on orders a little later). Due to the difficult war conditions however, shipping took only place end '44 and early '45.

    And now to the end-user, who were they? In my mind I could see a railway use (like Canadian Pacific). Through history these companies have always required top-quality watches and were willing to pay for that. Also the "anti magnetic" message on the dial should be minded. But the rather 'military'-look dial on these watches makes little civilian-user sense in that respect.

    RCAF then? Military Commands have the habit of not spending any money at unneccessary frills - take a look at RAF, RAAF, RNZAF watches: no gilded plates, no Incabloc, only standard movements, nothing but the required accuracy and durability. So, 18 jewels? hardly imaginable, let alone a de Luxe casing. Admittedly, there are also 18 j. in standard cases around. But why are these not marked with an 'RCAF' number at the back (like the single-pusher 2221 models)? All government property should be clearly recognizable.

    A few years back I happened to be in Montreal. Little time available, a few jewellers Omega watchshops were visited to ask some questions. Utterly hopeless, they even were not familiar with the 30mm movement...

    ===================

    I find it very difficult to comprehense the technical nomenclature. With the 18j. movement on the table, it was pointed out to me in French but at the same time virtually impossible to grasp in my mother-language, let alone reproduce here in English. Maybe somebody in our circle could shine a laserpointer?

    An observation: although higher numbers of 'stones' (rubis) could be ordered already from the moment of introduction (1941 for SC T2 version), estimated more than 99½% were delivered in standard 16 jewel lay-out. With this as reference, a potential client for 18j. was to gain not one but two extra stone-bearings. Although theoretically possible, SC versions with 17j. from this period are as yet unheard off -> if making extra costs better to go 'all the way' than 'half-hearted' most probably. Only with the appearance of caliber 280 in 1948 did the standard number go up from 16 to 17j.

    Could it considered to be an 'overkill' to equip this movement with eighteen stones? - not easy to say. Fact is that even in the Rg-chronometer movements and later calibers up to and including the 286, Omega did never go beyond a number of 17 (motto: "enough is enough"?). And Marco Richon even doesn't mention the fact when showing illustrations of Anti Magnetic 30mm's in his books. Practical value or not - collectors will cherish these beautiful movements, with an added bonus because of their scarcity.

    regards, Ben.

     
     
  12. mac_omega Nov 24, 2013

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    I had followed the thread on the Purists website and I knew the content of Ben´s write-up. Actually it does not enlighten the matter and the questions are still "open".
    The response I received from Omega: "These movements were used for chronometer competitions" which I consider to be complete rubbish...
    And after the competitions they have been built into simple non chronometer references? Really? What sense behind? I don´t believe this at all!
    It is an answer for the answer´s sake... they should have stated "we just don´t know", which would have been honest.
    The reason why I highly doubt:
    It is astonishing that most of the "competition movements" had only 15J (for the sub sec. version) or 16J (for the SC version) and they did not even have a fine adjustment device like on the 30 T2 Rg
    They had been fine adjusted by special experts (Regleur) mostly by working on the balance and end curves of the hairspring only... they lack all "unnecessary parts" and concentrating on the core parts in order to eliminate as many additional "disturbing factors" which might influence the regulation process!
    The response Omega sent to me shows that there is actually not any person of the old staff left in the factory (museum) who remembers and could enlighten the collectors community. Either they have retired or have died long ago.
    The 18J variation is not really "rare", these movements show up now and then and do not have a significant impact on the sales price.
    I rather call them uncommon, not really rare.
    They show up in 2 different versions:
    1) 30 SC T2 (often in ref. CK 2242) without shock protection
    2) 30 SC T2 PC (mostly in ref. CK 2254 and CK 2423)
    the latter already with shock protector.
     
  13. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 24, 2013

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    By the way this stepped case exists with 30T2, 26.5 and 23.4SC (not sure for 23.4 non SC), but I don't have any case reference for those, would you have some info on them?
     
  14. mac_omega Nov 25, 2013

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    Yann,
    can you post pictures? Or you can send them via PM - so we need not hijak the OP any more...
     
  15. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Nov 25, 2013

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    Please feel free to continue the discussion here.

    These stepped cases have intrigued me for years which is what drew me to my original purchase.
     
  16. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 25, 2013

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  17. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 25, 2013

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    Erich,

    Here is my 26.5SOB :
    [​IMG]

    And my 23.4SC :
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. mac_omega Nov 25, 2013

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    It is interesting that the one with 26.5 only has stepped lugs but a smooth bezel...
    Sorry I have no ref.# for your examples.
    I think the best way to find out would be an extract from Omega I guess - have you tried already?
     
  19. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Nov 25, 2013

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    I haven't tried yet but I guess it is something worth asking.
    Same smooth bezel on the eBay one.
     
  20. 88cut Mar 17, 2014

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    I just listed one of these 18j models for sale, if anyone is interested..

     
    IMG_1149.JPG