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Reflector ring color on early Speedmasters

  1. wwhntr

    wwhntr Oct 4, 2013

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    When did Omega change crystal reflector ring from white(silver) to black on the early Speedmasters?

    Trying to determine which would be correct for a ref 2998-4. (Should all 2998's have white/silver ring?)
     
  2. speedy4ever

    speedy4ever Moonwatch Only Author Oct 4, 2013

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    2998 should have silver.
     
  3. wwhntr

    wwhntr Oct 4, 2013

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    Thought I knew the answer, but wanted some confirmation! Thanks! From what I can tell, they did not go to black reflector ring until the 105.003.
     
  4. BASE1000

    BASE1000 Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Oct 4, 2013

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    The change came with the 105.003 (Even the 105.002 still used to come with the silver ring). Radius of the print on the dial became larger, the ring smaller and changed to black.
    It has a dramatical influence on the overall look of the watch. Looks larger with the black ring.
     
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  5. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 4, 2013

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    Do you have any photos of the difference? Did all Speedmasters from 105.003 onwards have the black ring?
     
  6. wwhntr

    wwhntr Oct 4, 2013

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    According to Marco Richon the bezel was enlarged from 38.6 to 39.7 mm (aperture 30mm and 30.8mm respectively).
    http://chronomaddox.com/omega/tables/mr/speedy_history_cm.html

    Additionally, the crystal for a 2915, 2998, 105.002, and 145.002, is a different Omega part #. Don't know if difference is just the silver/white ring or if there's actually a slight difference in diameter. (I would suspect there's a difference in diameter. Can anyone here confirm?)
     
  7. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 4, 2013

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    I believe it is just the inclusion of the different ring.
     
  8. BASE1000

    BASE1000 Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Oct 5, 2013

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    To my measuring there is no difference between the diameter of earlier or later black bezel. Even the base1000 bezels have the same diameter. Only the 2915 bezel is less.

    The glass with the silver ring is less domed than the later one. But diameter is exactly similar.

    There is an advertisment from Omega showing the 105.003 with silver ring and BASE1000 bezel but both did not exist in reality in that combination to my knowledge.
     
  9. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Oct 5, 2013

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    Some information for you:

    2915 – 063PZ5078 GLASS PLEXI ST RING D34.12 H4.5

    2998 - 063PZ5078 GLASS PLEXI ST RING D34.12 H4.5

    105002- 063PZ5078 GLASS PLEXI ST RING D34.12 H4.5

    105003 - 063PW5139 GLASS PLEXI BLACK RING D34.13 H5.1

    145002 – 063PZ5078 GLASS PLEXI ST RING D34.12 H4.5

    145012 – 063PW5139 GLASS PLEXI BLACK RING D34.13 H5.1

    Cheers, Al
     
  10. Kringkily

    Kringkily Omega Collector Oct 5, 2013

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    To my knowledge the 105.003 is the first use of the current crystal and black ring. The "Ed White" is the beginning of the modern look we know today. The black ring does make the face look bigger in comparison to the silver ring in the 105.002 and previous.
     
  11. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 5, 2013

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    Weird, the ring appears to be silver on my 145.012, maybe something's up with that
     
  12. g-boac

    g-boac Oct 5, 2013

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    Very interesting topic, and thanks for your response, Gunther!

    All - I believe there was a discussion on here about a year ago about "silver versus black-colored tension rings" which had some additional related information that might contribute to this discussion, but I can't find it - if anybody can, could you post a link to it here?
     
  13. cicindela

    cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 5, 2013

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    Actually, your looks like it is missing a ring completely ?? I can see the main plate off the edge of the dial?
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Dash1

    Dash1 Formerly: Ash Oct 7, 2013

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    The inside diameter of the base 1000 black bezel is smaller than the later bezels, no?

    Re the 105.003 advert - they often used a picture of an earlier watch in adverts, I guess they didn't think anyone would notice subtle differences. Adverts and catalogues are not good for determining detail on a specific model. I have even seen a catalogue with a picture of a straight lug Speedy marked as a 145.012.
     
  15. speedy4ever

    speedy4ever Moonwatch Only Author Oct 7, 2013

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    You should be aware that parts changes do not systematically happen with a reference change, but rather when stocks are finished.
    I had a 105.003 with silver ring. I will try to find a picture.
     
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  16. Privateday7

    Privateday7 quotes Miss Universe Oct 7, 2013

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    Probably the guy in promotion department really DID not know the difference, and really wonder why people make such a big fuss about it 50 years later :p
     
  17. BASE1000

    BASE1000 Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Oct 7, 2013

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    hm, I did not measure it to be honest. However the bezels are exchangeable and the fit tight both. For that reason I suppose their inner diameter is similar. Actually the outer diameter of my BASE 1000 bezels (I have 4 of them) are not all exactly the same. Little differences can be measured (around 0,2 mm).
     
  18. speedy4ever

    speedy4ever Moonwatch Only Author Oct 7, 2013

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    This is my ex- 105.003-63. I do not think that the ring is missing.

    [​IMG]

    To be honest, I do not know if black rings are made of black material or black painting, in which case, paint can be removed...
     
  19. speedy4ever

    speedy4ever Moonwatch Only Author Oct 7, 2013

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    You are right: internal diameter should be the same.

    FYI, fixation has evolved. When I customized my Alaska Project 2008 (to look more similar to the 1970 model), I could not manage to put a 1st-generation of "no-accent" bezel (from the 70's-80's) on that modern case. The case (and the bezel) are different, meaning that a modern bezel can fit an old model, but not the contrary. I had to sacrify one modern bezel support, by removing the insert and put the old bezel insert instead.
     
  20. Kringkily

    Kringkily Omega Collector Oct 7, 2013

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    This is the 105.003-63 that I have. I think the silver ring could have been used but according to some sources it should have come with the black ring with the 105.003 based on what I've seen on the market and of course the parts replacement number suggesting the 105.003 as the first using the black ring PW5139
     
    image (4).jpeg
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