When looking at what I think is a refinished dial on a watch at a forthcoming auction (photo below - please forgive me and correct me if I'm wrong), a thought struck me.

Someone has clearly gone to a great deal of effort. Why not get it right?

Is it because of a lack of available parts or was there never an intention to deceive?

 

When talking about redials, we should consider the circumstances when it was made.
Although collectors have some problems with redials (as we can see in @Larry S 's post), most other people just prefer to look at a nice and proper dial. During the past decades, many watches suffered from water/sweat damages, from the sun etc. and the owners just wanted to get them nice again. Originality was not important to them and I doubt that for many non-collectors this opinion has changed until now. Also because of this, many watches are (over)polished.
Look at vintage cars. Many of them have been restored during the past decades such that they look better than new. Only a perfect car could be the winner in the concours of Pebble Beach. During the past years, that opinion changed and now patina is king.
And let us be honest, which car would you prefer?
This?

this?

or this?


so although we as collectors are only interested in original watches, we should not always condemn redials (not talking about the really bad mouth or foot painted ones one can find in the wortst redials thread).

 

some dials get to the point where there is no other option but to refinish. If they are nicely redone I appreciate them, but collectors are always going to pay for originality obviously.

More importantly out of your 300 series examples, I prefer this one, lol. I think one of the most beautiful cars ever made....

 

I forgot:
If you intend to buy there, @Mazoue, you should have a look at their watches in person. Some watches are described as original, but dials are obviously refinished.

 

Hi Oku,

Sorry, it is not the same... You can't see the difference between a redone car wing and an original, but you can spot a refinished dial...
It makes it all.

 

Hi 10H10,
sure it is not the same.
With vintage cars, you can easily hide dilletantish body work by a nice paint. With watches, the redial has to be perfect.

But I doubt that we are able to spot every redial. An old redial made with an old engraving (not sure about the correct term) and correct fonts placed with perfection on the dial (Note: I am not talking about the modern redials. They are mostly different.)? Very very difficult to distinguish.

 

so if you could recreate the dial exactly, but it was not original, that would be acceptable? I wonder if with modern technology advances we will get to that point.

 

Hi Oku
I think that UG redials are spottable for someone a bit experienced, thanks god, UG's are not as expensive as "Paul Newman" daytona's and UG dials, are a lot more difficult to fake properly...

 

If you could recreate it exactly, you would have an original !

 

If you are working digitally you could even preserve/create/copy patina, so that it did not look like NOS.

 

Acceptable is a matter of taste. For some, it is, for some not.
Personally, I have two redials. One to save the original one from damage and the second one because the original dial was lost.
But I am searching for an original one. The redials can be spotted "easily" by collectors. But with the naked eye that needs glasses... I am sure that normal people would prefer the redial in my avatar

to a patinated original one (not mine):

No. Imho. a redial is a redial.

The problem with redials is that the first attempt must be correct. You don't have a series where you can adjust the printing process and throw away the first attempts. But maybe in the future...

I think, mostly we can spot a redial due to some imperfections like not centered scales, prints in subdials etc. and a different/thicker font. And the reason for this is that it is not economic to do it in perfection. As you said, UG is not a PN Daytona....

 

Three kinds of Redials:
1) JLC, PP and VC factory jobs that are just perfect
2) A reasonable attempt like yours @Oku or the 30CH owned by @Northernman.
3) Shit that bears no resemblance to the original like bad cosmetic surgery on a formerly beautiful woman.

 

Ps ... see thread for what this watch could be. Title ...
Universal Geneve Tri-Compax 22297 2

 

I'm reminded of the carpenter's hammer.
Handed down from generation to generation....150 years old and in all that time it has only had 2 new heads and 3 new handles.

 

I regard my 30CH as being in an intermittent stage. Either finding the “hens teeth” original dial to set it straight, or passing it on (with nothing hidden) to someone who don’t mind (good) restorations.
Either way if I had not redialed, the already badly redone dial, the watch would never have been worn.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ch30-yes-its-a-redial-i-did-it.49245/

 

Hi
This dial looks legit to me but would appreciate your comments

Thanks

 

A little weather beaten but still fine! I vote original.

 

+1
Such a two tone is quite difficult to reprint

 

agree, nice albeit a little weathered ...