Hi all,

That is my first post in this quality forum. I have read many interesting stuff here for a while though!
Long story short, I am mainly interested in pre-Moon Speedmaster's as a consequence of two of my passions/interests: watchmaking and atrophysics & space discovery.

One topic I still not master fully concerns the redial/relume factor.
Those days, I have been looking at a specific 105.012 from 1963 (Swiss Made) and I have got some doubts about its originality. Indeed, hands do not match indexes so I am not convinced about the those. Moreover, I would like your perspective on the dial itself.

Thanks a lot for your passion and knowledge,

Alex

 

I'm curious as to what the experts chime in with... The greenish tint on the hands is interesting... old superluminova?

I don't think the hands alone would be a reason to not buy the watch though if everything else is correct and the price is right.

 

Thanks for the reply ibis. I am actually more concerned about the dial & indexes than about the hands. Curious to know if they have been touched. The price is fairly high but the watch is very nice overall (despite the bezel which looks like the dark side of the moon) and has some interesting attributes.

 

I think the experts can tell you if the Dial is relumed or not, my opinion ist that the Lume is not original.

 

I think the lume plots are redone. They appear sloppy and that banana yellow just seems wrong.

 

Javi, Dgercp,

Thanks for the feedback. That confirms those doubts. I will wait for a better one.

Alex

 

Should there be a SWISS MADE without T's on a PROFESSIONAL dial?

 

Psych,

That is one of the nice attributes of this model. The regulation that stated to specify Tritium lume (the T) came out in 1964.
This 105.012 was produced in 1963 and thus did not fall under the regulation. This batch was released in Q1 1964 (~ 200 watches). That is also interesting because it is the earliest professional (lyre) case, produced before some 105.003's.

 

Aha - thanks.

Well, since it is clearly an interesting and rare Speedmaster and an attractive and good condition dial (regardless of bother about the luminous material), you should buy it. You'll regret it for ever if you don't. If you tire of it, there will surely be a queue of us lining up to buy it from you.

 

If so, I would feel it now already. I try to find only the best examples, this one would have been an impulse buy, also due to the lume, so if it is re-done... I will share a picture of my future 105.012 here when I find it.

 

no expert,

but i honestly think its so hard to tell with the age and differing conditions a watch could have been exposed to in its lifetime. unless you are buying a piece for the sake of a financial estate in NOS or superb collectible condition. I dont think the lume holds much value as opposed to a good dial, bezel, case, and movement. its just too hard to tell and people get too caught up in it. if it speaks to you get it, if it doesnt then pass. i went through this same debate with my Speedmaster

that's my two cents

 

That is a fair point. I think this is mostly personal and in my case, I would not feel perfectly fine if I invest lots of money into a watch that has been artficially upgraded. I say artificially because in that case that is clearly some make-up that you put on a watch to make it look better, or more appealing in case it is put back on the market.

We are talking about an irrational good anyway, so, ihmo, it is no more irrational to look for what one considers good enough, be the original lume (or a latter crown, like on my 105.003!)

 

I've seen some Speedies with this banana-colored lume, I'm more concerned about the "jittered/sloppy" lume-indexes ...

 

The dial looks like it was relumed poorly with the relume extending past the indexes in many places. The hands don't match the dial and as pointed out they have a green hue to them. The color of the lume is not concerning but it was put on the dial poorly. Finding that particular dial will be difficult, let alone expensive. Here's a couple of mine with the "banana" lume, which is matched by the hands.

 

Hi Richard,
Pretty rare dial indeed. You have got some very nice ones!