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  1. pkulak Aug 16, 2018

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    So, I've heard that Rolex, Tudor and Damasko use ball bearings for their bezel internals and pretty much no one else does. Why is that? Doesn't seem like a cost issue, since Tudor and Damasko aren't outrageously expensive. Why does Omega still use springs in their bezels?
     
  2. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Aug 16, 2018

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    Source?
     
  3. gixxer47 Aug 16, 2018

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    As far as Rolex is concerned, I was told the same by a Rolex salesperson who used to work at Omega when I purchased my Rolex sport watch and noticed that the rotating bezels felt different than the Omegas. Personally, it doesn't bother me though
     
  4. vitriol Aug 16, 2018

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    I do not know about Damasko, but R&T use the metal balls. These are not exactly the "ball bearings" but there are some balls and springs:)
    Rolex does it since ceramic sub, Tudor since Black Bay probably, though assembly of Tudor is a simpler construction than Rolex has.
    Yet I have not seen a disassembled Monta Oceanking bezel, but as per a diagram the bezel construction looks very much like a ceramic sub.
    So, if a micro brand can do this - the costs are not a problem.
    https://montawatch.com/pages/history
    function.jpg

    Do not know why Omega hasn't implemented such construction, but I wouldn't mind them doing this soon. The sound of the sub bezel is much nicer than SMP/PO bezel.
     
  5. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Aug 16, 2018

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    Wikileaks
     
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  6. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Aug 16, 2018

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    Seiko does.
     
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  7. Meme-Dweller Aug 16, 2018

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    No they don't
     
  8. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Aug 16, 2018

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    Well they do use a ball bearing as a detent, if not in a ball race a la Rolext et al.
     
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  9. Meme-Dweller Aug 16, 2018

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    Which specific model? I've taken the bezel apart on at least 8 different Seikos, from the low-end SKX009, to the mid-range Marinemaster 300s, to the high-end Spring Drive SBDB009 Tuna. No balls to be found, just a clickspring (and in the case of Tunas, 2 half-springs) with ridges on the underside of the bezel. Can't speak for Grand Seiko models, though.
     
  10. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Aug 16, 2018

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    Glass Open copy.jpg

    https://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/102126-replacing-bezel-ballspring-easily/
     
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  11. Meme-Dweller Aug 17, 2018

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  12. vitriol Aug 17, 2018

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    Seiko used it in the early production 7002 models, such bezels were bi-directional. I don't know the reason but they changed it and the late production 7002 have the bezel construction like SKX007.
     
  13. timestamp Aug 17, 2018

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    Exactly - Seiko Divers starting with the 6105-8110/9 released in 1968 used ball detents (previous bezels were friction only), and switched to springs sometime in the early 90‘s.
     
  14. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Aug 17, 2018

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    So, what Rolex uses aren't really "ball bearings" but appear to be rollers:

    [​IMG]

    And as has been pointed out, other brands use spring loaded balls, like Seiko as Jim pointed out, and yes Omega does as well...

    Omega's design is typically either a ruby sphere that is spring loaded, like on a vintage Seamaster 300:

    [​IMG]

    Or other models use a self-contained capsule with a ceramic ball - the spring is inside the capsule:

    [​IMG]

    So the claims made in the OP are not really true as written, so that's why I asked where this information comes from.

    The next thing you have to consider is what system is better. Personally I've not had a new Rolex bezel apart, but in the end all this system is doing is making a bezel click, so if it uses a flat style click spring like many modern Omegas do, or a wire spring like say older Doxas do, or some sort of ball detent, there really isn't a huge difference. For me personally what click spring system is used on a dive watch would be VERY low down on the list of considerations.

    The wire and flat spring systems are very reliable - yes tabs on the flat springs can break off, but it's not really a common problem unless the watch has not been serviced in decades, or someone has abuse the bezel. The simplicity of the designs used by most makers are appealing to me as someone who services watches - making this more complex than it needs to be is not normally a good thing.

    Cheers, Al
     
  15. vitriol Aug 17, 2018

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    Al, ^^^ this is a diagram of a ceramic GMT bezel. It is bi-directional bezel with rollers.
    Subs and Seadwellers' bezels are different.
    I have only DSSD diagram but the construction is the same for ceramic Subs too.

    tech spec.jpg
     
  16. vitriol Aug 17, 2018

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    In which models Omega uses such capsules? Ploprof?
     
  17. dinexus Aug 17, 2018

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    Some poor sap on another forum broke his fall with his Pelagos catching on something – tore the bezel off so we could all see what's underneath.
    [​IMG]

    Also looks to be the Rolex style bearing system as diagrammed above.
     
  18. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Aug 17, 2018

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    By "different" your mean what Seiko and Omega did decades ago. Thanks - got it. So much for the "new" system...

    SM300 replacement cases (1660324), modern Bullhead, and some others.
     
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  19. ScubaPro Actually dives with dive watches!!! Aug 17, 2018

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    The bezel system on dive watches matters a lot, for it regularly gets exposed to dirt, sand, fine particulate matter, mud and oh yes, salt. It has to be easily cleaned with water (and w/o disassembly) to be a well-functioning unit in the field. The critical thing here is cleaning after diving, at the same time you're cleaning your regulator and everything else. A lot of bezels are pretty much junk after they've been diving a few times, as the manufacturers have learned that these days most dive watches will barely even get wet, so they spend little on parts and engineering for the bezel as long as it works fine at the office or barbecue. I dive with late model Rolex and Tudor divers, and the bezels feel night and day different but seem to hold up well. I did have a Sub LV lose it's one-way operation and sent it in, and it was repaired under warranty and since then I've been a lot better bit cleaning it up (it is often in some pretty nasty lake water) and I've had zero problems since (about 3 years, lots of bottom time). It is also a breeze to turn underwater w/ heavy gloves, with the Pelagos a bit stiffer but still good. I think the key here with any watch is just keeping the underside of the bezel as clean as possible. I have zero experience with Omega divers.
     
  20. vitriol Aug 18, 2018

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    I meant the difference between the present-day GMT bezel and present-day Sub bezel.