I have noticed that in the past year or so we have seen a lot more of private sellers that are obviously dealers selling in the private section. Wasn't the dealer/ watches for sale section originally set up to separate the two?

I honestly don't care if you are one or the other, but given the separate sections shouldn't we be transparent about it? Why have separate sections then? I check both sections and wanted to know what others thought about this.

For the record, I have purchased from both, dealers and private sellers, and wouldn't hesitate to do so again if I was interested in a specific watch.

EDIT: not interested in calling out anyone specifically on the thread, just sincerely curious as to other opinions.

 

As long as the stricter rules for selling in the Private section is are abided to, I have nok issues with it.

I have a lot of opinions about the recent spike in seller's bullshit in the sales forum, however. Writing in your advert that "to the best of my knowledge..." or "I could be wrong, but..." when mentioning issues which are 100% wrong and the seller is claiming ignorance on obvious faults sets my piss boiling.

 

I completely agree, with everything that you’ve said, in fact you’ve summed it up so well, I’ve else nothing to add.

Transparency, honesty and integrity are so important for the ongoing success of OF.

So it’s a +1 from me

 

I'd agree too. Personally I prefer private sellers and I'd rather not see dealers' threads in the Private Sales section.

 

IMHO a private seller generally adheres to a higher standard and will be more accommodating and flexible than a dealer. A private seller by definition is a hobbyist and by the same token a dealer will likely be earning his primary source of income through watch sales.

I prefer to buy and sell to hobbyists and therefore choose to deal with people in the Private Sales section, but yeah, as the OP says, not all private sellers are equal and I also don't see the need to confuse the issue when there is a Watch Sales Forum set up specifically for dealers.

 

I am not sure, what criteria is used to asses who is a private seller, and who is a dealer?

 

I think what confuses people is sellers who move back and forth between both sections.

 

I too am curious about sellers in Private sales who routinely sell only outside of their own economic area to avoid VAT or sales tax and always seem to have BNIB or NOS items. Surely the Sales tax issue is a big give away that the seller is operating as a business? Perhaps there are dispensations or perhaps not.

 

Sorry I should have said in the sales "Rules"

 

My favorite is the silly & exaggerated condition descriptions, where a seller says something like his watch is "basically flawless" yet it has obvious scratches and a bezel so faded you can barely see the numbers. I think a "basically flawless" watch should be LNIB (Like New In Box) condition. Sadly, condition adjectives are subjective.

 

Maybe, but in the case you referenced, I don't think there's a person on this site who would say " Gee, I see where the seller could make that claim".

The thing that I really like about this site's private sales forum is that it's self-policed. If there is a question about a listing, it doesn't take long for the seller to be told (usually through PM) and the listing is corrected. Most of the time, we never know until a listing is corrected. Outlandish or inaccurate descriptions generally don't last long.

 

IMO this is not as true as it used to be. There is a discrepancy between what is stated in the site rules and what is enforced; no negative (!) inputs about the item for sale are now permissable and will be deleted by moderators, whereas the site rules state that only price bashing is forbidden. So when wanting to point out issues with an item to the unsuspecting, you will have to write the seller and it is up to him if he wishes to amend his sales thread. In the mean time, any number of members who lack the benefit of experience could have fallen for the, ahem, quite liberal text or the downright wrong descriptions.

Last year I tried calling out a number of concerns with a listing to the (experienced) seller via PM and experienced that my points were either overheard or twisted in his ammended listing. That made me comment directly in a different sales thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/fs-...-art-deco-c-1951-14k-gold-square-watch.54619/ for which I am happy that I did. Under the moderating regime we have at the moment, this would either had been impossible or would have had to be conducted over a number of PMs, most likely involving moderators if the member stopped responding or just ignored me.

I have, as stated in my first post, noted that the descripitions are getting more and more BS-laden, but still members are quick to point newcomers to the Private Sales subforum because it's a platform that operates on trust and so on. About half of the watches I've sold on OF has been to very new members who have had a limited exposure to the hobby and I have often had to - in PM - advise against buying other member's items as the adverts were less than trustworthy in their descripion. And it has only gotten worse in the last year or so.

I say, let members comment as they like in the listings and if there are issues with the comments THEN moderate those away. I'd much rather have a comment on one of my own sales threads stating that, say, a bracelet is the wrong reference for a watch than seeing another "Nice one, I would have bought it immediately if not..." or even worse "If only it had been 38mm+ I would have bought it, GLWS ". IMO, the rules should be about protecting and educating the community, not creating a free and easy platform where you can peddle your goods and sprout bullshit unchallenged.

Rant over.

 

Couldn't agree more. I very purposefully chose "(usually through PM)" to leave room for your rant. I was going to address it but lost interest.

 

Honestly, I've wanted to get this off my chest for a few months now. Now experiencing a bit of post-coital tristesse

 

Been wanting to post this thread for months..getting drunk at a wedding certainly assisted in the endeavor ..glad to hear others have noticed the same.

 

I don't care so much about dealers posting in private sales as long as their posts follow the rules and display genuine effort.

In terms of being forthright, I do wish people who say "this won't last long" or "very fair price" or anything else about how "great" the price of a watch is would disclose how many examples of that reference they personally own.

The problem is that we tolerate comments on price if they are positive, but not when they are negative, so when senior members make comments like these it gives the impression that we all believe that a Polerouter should be sold for $2500 and nobody else can swoop in and say that maybe Polerouters aren't so hot...

Disclosure: I own a Polerouter and I don't think they are worth $2500

 

@ConElPueblo :

I completely agree with you. I’ve seen watches offered for sale here that raised questions for me. I’ve been surprised that none of the more knowledgeable members have challenged some of these postings.

Every single time I’ve seen you point out flaws or issues in watches posted here, whether for sale or not, I’ve appreciated it a great deal. So, thank you for being one of the ‘hall monitors’!

In some instances, silence becomes agreement, or certainly ‘accessory after the fact’. This ought to be a safe place to buy, sell and trade watches.

 

I appreciate your passion about these issues, and that you take personal responsibility for the integrity of the Forum. Speaks very well of this community.

 

I used to browse the private FS ads in confidence and I recognized almost all the names from posts here and there. I also saw various comments posted in FS threads that made me feel good in that it seemed those ‘in the know’ like yourself were paying attention and giving feedback. When a FS thread had no feedback, it suggested there wasn’t anything wrong with the watch per description and so anyone could buy with confidence. (Note: I don’t consider price point to be something that others would or should give open comments on - although @Syrte had a reason thread that engaged my spider senses)

Lately I don’t recognize many of the sellers and the self professed glowing reviews are never openly challenged. This leads me to feeling more uneasy. I’m not a potential buyer for any of the smaller popular dress watches but even the few I am interested have the same void of information.

I no longer see this forum as the safe haven for all posted vintage watches I once did. However, I’ve never seen this as the primary place for buying/selling watches and I assume ‘caveat emptor’ should be respected as it is anywhere else.