Hi all,

I bought a 352 Chronometre which case looks practically identical to a Constellation 2648 (minus observatory logo) also very similar to the Centenary 2500.

I had it opened by my local watchmaker and was baffled to see there is no reference on the inside of the caseback, instead there is a round Omega logo with an 18C on it but there are no external hallmarks to be seen.

I've read about Dennison cased Omegas, the french cased Omegas, the argentian cased Omegas, the STAR cases, etc. This seems to be a french case but can't see the maker's hallmark or eagle head. I can see, however, a watchmaker service mark from 1954 plus it had decades of grime on the lugs and caseback which gives me some peace of mind regarding the authenticity.

Cant wait for the experts to shed some light on this piece,

Cheers

 

Yes, it looks to me to be a French cased example and from the serial, pre-Constellation. Can you see an embossed eagle anywhere on the case body?

 

Hello Desmond,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I looked around and there is no hallmark whatsoever, not under the lugs, not on the sides. One of the reasons I bought the watch is the unpolished case with very crisp lines all around so I dont think the hallmark was ever present.

I read in your blog about the forged cases. I bought the watch in a non working condition and full of dirt so I take it someone with bad intentions would have made a small effort to make it presentable!

 

The round old style Omega engraving initially made me think French case also... but the French were very accurate in marking all parts of the case with the eagle head hallmark, even fixed gold strap bars. So I highly doubt it is French.

I have observed this 18C hallmark style on Canadian and Australian contract cases - so I think this might be the case here.

My advice: go for an extract from Bienne - I think it would pay for this specimen

just my 2 c

 

If it is French gold, it should be marked on almost every part as Mac Omega said, and for an old watch it should be with a hallmark like the eagle, not with a number - it has changed since.

This hallmark does not match anything I know about French gold. It is clearly not the hallmark for imported gold - which is usually the owl.

As far as I remember, Gatorcpa once said such a combo (logo and hallmark) suggests an old English case.

 

If it is French gold, it should be marked on almost every part as Mac Omega said, and for an old watch it should be with a hallmark like the eagle, not with a number - it has changed since.

This hallmark does not match anything I know about French gold. It is clearly not the hallmark for imported gold - which is usually the owl.

As far as I remember, Gatorcpa once said such a combo (logo and hallmark) suggests an old English (or Australian as Mac Onega said?) case.

 

Thank you all for your input, in fact I did buy this from Australia as @mac_omega has suggested. I thought it had to be french because of the 18 C (Carat), one would imagine english speaking countries would mark it with a K.

Were there other identical watches with this case in other markets? I mean a 2648 type case with early 12mm serial chronometre?

If the earliest 2648 I could find has 12.2xx.xxx serial one would assume this to be the predecesor of the first connie. Or maybe, as movements were shipped to Australia for casing, it might have remained uncased until a couple of months later when the 2648 comes out and then, they modeled the case after this "new" design? So althought it has a low serial number, it might have been produced later than the first connie.

Thanks again for your help, will defenitely order an extract. How long do these extracts take to arrive?

Best

 

If you look at pic n°2, the is a hallmark near the upper left lug in the slope of the case back. It looks like a French hallmark.

 

That is just a reflection combined with my poor photographic skills. There are no hallmarks on the outside of the case.

 

I think Mac Omega may be on to something in respect to Canadian or Australian cases. I note some cases manufactured in Australia from the 40s for other brands have a similar carat, as opposed to karat, mark. But an extract may be the only way to find out. Also there was a tradition in some South American countries for SS cases to be imported and swapped into locally made gold cases.

 

The Omega picture mark looks wrong. It varies slightly between case makers, but the OP's just too crude. Likely not an Omega sanctioned case.

 

You may be right... I also thought like you, but it is hard to tell from the photo

 

Maybe I was not clear enough on the subject... I found this kind of hallmark on a Rolex prince, not a conny...

 

Historically, the only English speaking country to spell the word for gold purity as karat rather than carat is the USA. However, presently there are a growing number of goldsmiths outside the USA who are turning to spell the word as karat to differentiate it from the word for gemstone weight, which is universally spelled carat.

 

As far as I know, this symbol were often used in French gold cased watches during the 40's and 50's, but is not particular to those watches. The real sign of a French cased watch is the French official hallmark for gold - the eagle for 18K produced in France during that period.

The symbol we are talking about is just a "souvenir" of the old Omega symbol. The French cased watches seem to have used it longer than the Swiss ones. The same seems to be true concerning the case serial numbers: we can find them on French cased watches from the 1950's when the Swiss watches do usually no longer use them.

For instance, please see the following examples:

French cased 30 cal from 1947-1951
View attachment 374092


Another one from the early 1950's:


The same:



Swiss classical 26,5 cal from the early 1930's:


The same:



Pocket watch from around 1916-1923:




Now my hypothese are the following:

i) First, there seem to be 2 logos coming from the first Omega watches, ie the 19'' pocket watches. One logo for the movement, without the little flower (crown?) under the circle, one for the case with this addition.

See my 19'' from the early 1900's:

Movement (sorry for the blurry picture):


Usually, the movements coming from this 19'' series did no longer have the logo from a particular date (I do not know which exactly), though the case conitnue to have the case logo. For instance, the pocket watch above has a movement with no logo.

Case:


The same:



ii) Second, France and apparently other countries that cased Omega's movements + dials used the case logo as a sign of some "official" connexion with Omega. As they used this logo at a time when the movements do no longer had it, and when the Swiss made cased did not usually use it on the cases, the logo eventualy became a sign of a French or X made cased.

iii) If you remember the discussion we had about the case serial numbers,

https://omegaforums.net/threads/french-omegas-and-their-numbers-looking-for-info.53549/#post-650902

you shall remember one the remaining issues: there appears to be two different numbeing series for French cased Omega from the 1940's and 1950's, one continuing the old Omega numbering, another one which seems specific to French cased watches.

I first thought it could be related to special models such as Connies. But I think now French cased Omega started a new series from the late 40's or the early 50's. For instance, plesae see the 2 French cased cal 30 above: the older one has the old numbering, the other one the new numbering.

I am not sure at all of that last hypothesis though!