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"Polishing" a Speedmaster case - insert horrified expression here...

  1. photo500 Oct 4, 2015

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    Hey Everyone,
    Just thought you might like to see a Speedmaster case before and after refinishing :) Plus its an opportunity to do a but of gentle educating.

    Refinishing a watch case means reapplying the factory finishes to each surface, these finishes include but are not limited to;
    Satin graining or brushed finish - eg on the vertical sides of your Speedmaster
    Polishing - to a highly reflective look (this word is frequently incorrectly used by watch collectors as an umbrella term for refinishing a case) this would commonly be seen on the bevelled part of a Speedmasters lugs.
    Media blasting - a uniform matt appearance applied with a machine such as a micro bead blaster, think Sinn U1 etc.

    Contrary to the large amount of misinformation present on this and other watch forums it IS possible to refinish a watch case while preserving or reinstating its sharp edges. Dents are often filled with micro welding too instead of just grinding them out.

    Refinishing a watch case the right way can take just just as long if not longer than servicing the movement inside. Which is one of the reasons most watchmakers do not do it properly! ::stirthepot:: It's also not something that is generally taught in watchmaking school.

    While I'm not doing this kind of work to make a living I have been doing quite a bit of work for forum members here and from Instagram followers ( @Retrievador ) but I just wanted to show that there is a difference between the terms used and maybe, hopefully someday for an understanding to develop that not all "polishing is bad"

    Before;
    IMG_5238.JPG
    After (with a small amount of work still to do)
    IMG_5239.JPG
     
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  2. chasint Oct 4, 2015

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    Wow, that refinish is amazing.
     
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  3. Geo! Oct 4, 2015

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    Excellent work Adam, but the purists will still say it's sacrilege. I personally appreciate what you are doing, and would rather have a watch correctly re-finished. The only time I would strongly recommend leaving it original, is if it had some "real" history behind it.

    Here's what was a beat up Seiko that I re-finished a few months back.

    image.jpeg

    image.jpeg

    Not perfect, but a lot better than what it was!
     
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  4. Horlogerie EU based Professional Watchmaker Oct 4, 2015

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    Beautiful work, and I agree with Geo, the purists are not going to agree. While you are maintaining a sharp edge, unless you put down a bead of weld all over the case surfaces to maintain the original dimensions, the case is getting smaller each time it's polished (mind you, by a tiny amount, but material has to be removed to achieve a polish or brushed finish).

    I don't know why case finish is so important, if I had a rusty, dented, scratched car, more than likely it would increase in value with a proper restoration, but for some reasons watches don't fit into this category. Weird huh?

    Geo - very nice work and nice watch, looks arabic in the day window?
     
  5. Geo! Oct 4, 2015

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    Thank you.

    The day window is switchable English or Arabic.
     
  6. photo500 Oct 4, 2015

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    Good work there Geo :) the satin finish looks nice and even.

    Actually that's part of the point Horlogerie, without a proper subset of data as to what a particular case originally measured out at - measured to .01mm its not going to be possible to tell if any material has been removed or not. I know for a fact that there is considerable variation between vintage cases because they were hand worked at the factory in the first place. People think they can tell, but they're often only referencing it to photos they have seen, not actual examples and they certainly aren't running a micrometer over the case.....The various watch blogs do this all the time, promising that a watch they are promoting has never been refinished, it's just not believable.

    I do agree that some watches with history should probably be left alone and I've just posted a Ploprof in the FS section that fits that category. BUT, there are so many cases out there that have been badly treated you'd think people might just be a bit more sensible about it. :thumbsup:
     
  7. Horlogerie EU based Professional Watchmaker Oct 4, 2015

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    Agree, without knowing the original size it's anyone's guess what it should actually be.

    Personally I like the restored look vs the beat up and damaged one, with the exception of the dial and hands, I like them to be left alone and value of a redial or lume replacement is seriously affected so best that those are left alone. There are always exceptions, but if the work is done properly, then I see it as an improvement to the piece, priceless paintings are "restored", cars, airplanes, etc...why watches are so different is an odd thing...
     
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  8. photo500 Oct 4, 2015

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    It's is an odd thing indeed [emoji2] aw well. There's so many things like collectable porcelain, cars and boats as you say of course. All much more valuable in restored/repainted/rebuilt condition. I wonder if it's because with watches most people can't work on them themselves?

    It's funny too because if you show a beat up watch that's original to anyone but a watch nerd they'll likely ask why you're bothering to wear it lol.
     
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  9. Dgercp Oct 4, 2015

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    Beautiful refinishing! You open a great and sensitive discussion. Vintage collectors of anything tend to be
    purists, and the more original, the better. I am not sure that refinishing a case is any more sacrilegious than refinishing a dial to many of us. No one might know if a refinished case was .1mm off, but it would bother me nonetheless to know that my case was refinished. Also, it might make a watch seem disingenuous to have a well aged dial with patina and a new looking case. One needs to consider the entire aesthetic of the watch. Now, if a piece had a stunning minty dial and a beat up case, a good refinishing might make lots of sense. But, there are not many watches out there that fit this mold.

    Just my 2 cents!
     
  10. photo500 Oct 4, 2015

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    Yep I understand what you're saying, can I ask would it make a difference if that case was done by the fellow who originally did the work at the factory? For example using the same tools and methods? I agree about considering the entire aesthetic. Usually a refinished case is paired with a pristine dial or a full resto.
     
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  11. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Oct 4, 2015

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    Excellent craftsmanship! Purists care, but the vast majority of them can't tell anyway.

    I once thrashed a nice Rolex case before selling so I could get a premium for "unpolished" condition.

    Am I kidding? As with cases, most can't tell. ::stirthepot::
     
  12. vinn2 Oct 4, 2015

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    good to see an excellent job
     
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  13. erpin9 Oct 4, 2015

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    I think I would have a case polished only if the dial is in very good condition. IMHO, a really vintage looking dial and hands would not match well with a case that looks almost new because it was refurbished.
     
  14. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Oct 4, 2015

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    Bingo. A perfectly refinished case with imperfectly aged dial and hands doesn't look any better to me than a beat up case with a new dial and hands. It all has to go well together as a package.

    Of course it is - as I've said here many times before, if the finish can be created when the watch was new, it can be recreated again in the future. I think that is simple logic. But people generally equate "refinishing" to the crap work they see day in and day out on watches that someone leaned against a buffing wheel for a few minutes and called it "refinished."

    But because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be. I could certainly make my own vintage Speedmaster look brand new, but why would I? I personally want my vintage watches to look like they are vintage. If I wanted a new looking watch, I would have bought a new watch. I personally want the history to be there - not erased. Unlike swapping for a new dial and hand set where the old parts can be put back on, refinishing is a permanent and irreversible step. In that way it is sort of equivalent to refinishing a dial - it can't be undone.

    And watches are certainly not unique in the desire to maintain original finish - many areas of antiques share this same notion, so this is not as strange as some make it out to be.

    In the end it's a personal choice to have this done or not, but it's something that should be considered carefully before being done.

    Cheers, Al
     
  15. JohnSteed Oct 4, 2015

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    Great work Adam. Seems a fabulous and faithful attention to the details :thumbsup:
     
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  16. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Oct 4, 2015

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    Well my friends in HK no longer buy NOS submariners because they are refinishing the cases to NOS.
    I saw some and they are unbelievable.
    As has been said, the cases are filled and built up first, before being polished back to original specification dimensions and factory specification finish.
    Suddenly the beat up look is at a premium, so now they refinish the cases and then boil them with gravel.....

    Don't get me started on Daytonas.....in HK some dealers will not touch them at all because they cannot tell them apart from the fake cases, fake dials, you name it.
     
  17. RawArcher Measures thread drift on the Richter Scale Oct 4, 2015

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    Thank you @photo500 for opening up a great discussion!
     
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  18. Rman Oct 4, 2015

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    Honestly besides the prices this is why I stay away from Rolex. Some (highly regarded) dealer's inventories have up to three of the same model and the dials are NOS with perfectly aged lume. How is this possible for a 30-40 year old watch that's valued well into 5 digits?::shy::
     
  19. erpin9 Oct 4, 2015

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    This is scary stuff. The fakers are getting very good at their craft specially the attention to detail. Question is, how to we protect ourselves from buying these watches?
     
  20. Audley Yung Oct 5, 2015

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    i agree with the polish job on this. The aged look does nothing for me.
     
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