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Polarouter + Polerouter = confused

  1. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Jun 16, 2014

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    When I had read from numerous sources that the Universal Geneve Polerouter was Gerald Genta's first watch design, I decided I wanted to own a piece of history. In fact, my search for a Polarouter was how I discovered this messageboard. / serendipity

    After a few months of eager hunting, I finally came across and acquired my target: a 1954/55? RG Polarouter DeLuxe, model no. b 10234 2 , serial no. 1826692. No papers, but a pristine condition watch. Matt Bain told me ( after I bought the watch) it was the finest example he'd seen in years. Cool.

    Fast forward a year and some. I receive an email from a Canadian dealer re: a mint condition 1953? UG DeLuxe, model number b 10234 2 , serial no. 1809290. This one has papers and was sold in 1953. Not sure about the dial but not worried because I’ve (2) pristine dials in my drawer.

    According to UG, Gerald Genta began working for the company in 1953.

    This begs the obvious question: how did Mr. Genta design a specific model of a watch for a company he had not yet worked for?
     
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    Edited Jan 18, 2019
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  2. Georgieboy58 Jun 16, 2014

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    According to this source, Genta was only involved in later Polerouter designs, not the early ones.
     
  3. Georgieboy58 Jun 16, 2014

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    My fault, you're right, I misinterpreted the text.
    I searched "Polerouter" from the top and read the section until "Gerald Genta" was mentioned. From these two sections I got the impression that he was only involved in the second generation.
    The next section then contains the quote you mentioned.
     
  4. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jun 16, 2014

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    CR,

    as far as I know, the Polarouter was a 1954 introduction - the SAS Helge Viking made the flight that gave the model-line its name in Nov 1954. That makes it possible for Genta to be involved from the beginning. How are you dating your pieces? Could your serial number tables be off?
     
  5. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jun 16, 2014

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    I hope that you received some guidance on that second DeLuxe. Not loving that dial. Should be a Polerouter DeLuxe, unless I'm missing something here.

    The serial number of 1.8M would put the date of the watch around 1956 based on the charts I've seen.

    [​IMG]

    Take care,
    gatorcpa
     
  6. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Jun 17, 2014

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    Ahhh, I see . You believe this watch might be some sort of fake or re-dial? Can you be more specific about "guidance" re: the dial?

    I should have the watch and it's paraphernalia tomorrow. The seller assures me that the watch is 100% original but who knows? He could be lying. It's such a small amount of money that I can't believe it would be worth the time to cook up all that stuff, especially including the watch which to me looks 100% correct. The condition of the watch suggests it's original, at least in my unprofessional opinion.

    I have a feeling that I'll be spending time doing some research over the next few weeks - months.

    Right off the bat, the fact patterns don't really match with respect to serial number runs, Mr. Genta's starting date and the introduction of the Polarouter in the fall of 1954. I'm inclined to think this all has to do with UG's patent fight transitioning from the 138/138ss to the microrotor in March of 1955.
    I'm not the best researcher in town but I'll see what I can come up with...

    Next off the bat, I found a 195x ? 10234 which looks like a Polarouter without the name Polarouter. Same model number, save for the #2 prefix. Perhaps that's a clue. I think my new "Deluxe" is probably the next years model...

    I"m starting to feel like the Polarouter grew organically within UG. At least at first.



     
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  7. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Jun 17, 2014

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    Wildcard!

    1684xxx

    I'm left even more confused. This "Polerouter" dates anywhere from 1952 to 1955. There shouldn't be a "Polerouter" with an earlier serial number than a "Polarouter". Right?

    Did UG case all their own watches during the 50's?

    I'm sure UG had some methodology for serial number strikes but it appears there may have been some randomness to the process.
     
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  8. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Jun 17, 2014

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    There's no fault and no need to defend yourself because this is all very confusing and frankly, I think you might actually be correct. It seems that the Polarouter already existed in some shape or form when Genta arrived at Universal Geneve. Possibly as the "DeLuxe". And, I think he made both subtle and substantial changes to an already existing design and then designed reference numbers 20217 and 20224 (Bombe lugs).

     
  9. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jun 17, 2014

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    I believe that this is partially correct. The "DeLuxe" design (Ref. 10234) was likely already being made (whether designed by Mr. Genta or not) at Universal when the Genta-designed Polarouter with the bombe lugs was introduced in late 1954. They just started to put the "Polarouter" name on them at that time. Here is an Italian advertisement from 1954 that mentions the Ref. 10234 without picturing it:

    [​IMG]

    Look way down at the bottom left.

    Source: http://www.polerouter.de/frameset-advertisement.htm

    Another thing I noticed on the above webpage is that there seems to be a period during 1956-57 where both the Polarouter and Polerouter names were used in advertising, depending on the model and market. Once the micro-rotor movement was introduced, the Polarouter name was allowed to die out as the remaining bumper cal. 138SS watches were sold off.

    My belief is that the citizenrich's first watch with the 1.8M serial number is a DeLuxe produced after the introduction of the Polerouter name. This one (same source as above) seems to be a pre-Polarouter version of the same watch, produced around 1953-4:

    [​IMG]

    However, the story surrounding citizenrich's second watch just doesn't seem right to me. The serial at 1.8M would put it right around the changeover from Pola- to Pole-router, although I've seen some Polerouters of this style with 1.7M serial numbers. The fonts on the dial seem rather crude and non-uniform, as compared to the above example. Also, I've not seen the cross-hair dials on this particular style before, although they very well may exist.

    I would recommend that you go over the paperwork very carefully on this watch, so be sure that all the numbers match and the 1953 date on the bill of sale isn't really 1958.

    One last note...the steel Polerouter with what looks to be a 1.6M serial number looks like a redial to me. It possibly could have started life as a Polarouter. The redial rate on these watches is very close to that of Omegas of similar vintage, at well over 50% based on my unscientific observations.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
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  10. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Jun 17, 2014

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    Helps? You're like the Raymond Babbitt meets Frank Coumbo of vintage watch collecting. You do much more than help.

    The UG pictured above ^^ has some subtle differences from the first "B 10234 2" named "Polarouter DeLuxe";

    1. This watch has open ended lugs, the first Polarouter has closed ends.

    2. The Swissmark "Swiss" is a mm or two above the outer ring. The font is the same or similar but the actual size of the lettering is much
    smaller. Perhaps half as big.

    3. The case back is very different. The step ups or reliefs are in different places and are molded - shaped differently.



    I found another of the same reference number "10234", serial # 1856729 and this reference doesn't even have a name. I'll see if I can find more of this model. She's a real pretty watch; I wouldn't mind owning one. Image(s) borrowed w/o permission - sorry.

    Is it possible "10234" isn't a model number but something else?

    Without trying too hard, I'm finding lots of "Polerouters" (not polArouters) with 17XXXXX serial numbers. None of them are redials. So, the one thing I know for certain is that Universal Geneve (or, their case makers) didn't stay precise in the sequence of their serial numbers. Most likely, things were done in batches.

    In the mid-fifties, UG was putting out as many watches as any Swiss watch company not named Omega. Apparently, these companies went to great lengths to avoid tariffs and taxes as any company should do and has an obligation to do for their shareholders. Although I'm starting to wonder just how clever their accounting may have actually been…hahaha
     
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  11. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jun 18, 2014

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    You've raised some good points here. I like where this is going.

    It could be that the "10234" is a reference number, but only for the case back. Generally, this would not be true for Omega or Rolex, but UG is a different company.

    They all seem to be similar in terms of the shape and location of the slots for a wrench. So while the casebacks of all of these watches could be interchangeable, but the dials, tops and lugs might be different. The numbers after the reference, such as "2" or "1 TL" might have something to do with this, or they might not.

    I agree that production of cases and movements were usually done in batches with the company matching movements to cases as demand warranted.

    Take care,
    gatorcpa
     
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  12. Fost Apr 13, 2017

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    sorry to bump this one, but very interesting...
    Do we have the exact dimension ont the case? I saw the Matthew B ad, it stated 36mm, but is it w or w/o the crown?
    There is another dial variation, without the UG logo, only with the Text and Polerouter not Polarouter, is it an earlier variation that the OP one?
     
  13. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Apr 13, 2017

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    Good thread. ...Very valuable
     
  14. Paulomega Apr 15, 2017

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    Great research. thank you so much for making it available to all . beautiful pictures.