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plotting the collecting trajectory....

  1. Mothra Sep 4, 2014

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    Like (I suspect) many of you I have many hobbies - I tend to blaze into a new one with an all consuming passion. I got into watches when, after competing a restoration, I found myself seriously contemplating collecting vintage Suzuki gsx-rs. There are storage implications to hobbies and not wanting to completely fill my garden with sheds full of 80s Japanese sportsbikes, I refocused on watches. My initial plan was to learn to be a watchmaker, so I bought a practice watch and tools, looked at the movement, swore at how small it was then promptly accidentally broke it. Chatting with a friend at work, he mentioned how 'incredibly inexpensive' vintage watches were; I quickly found Desmonds site, then here, then I was doomed.

    For my first couple of years I did ok - my first couple of watches were pie pan constellations, as there was a wealth of reference on them and they were relatively inexpensive. I made mistakes - dials without date surrounds, or blemishes on the dial that I simply didn't notice until I took macro shots, or even overpaying after being overtaken by 'the fever' for a particular instance - not even model - of watch, but nothing went too badly wrong. Most of my early watches were around the £4-500 mark, and I spent countless hours scouring ebay and watch fairs for 'bargains'. I was happy to buy entry level watches as the spending committee was quietly happy about the nonappearance of vintage motorcycles, and I knew once funds were committed to the watch collection, well, it could be consolidated and traded up for models that would have failed the internal audit if I'd foolishly gone in at that level. Surprisingly, I found it very hard to begin this consolidation as I just didn't want to sell any....

    I think I see this in many of the newer members of the site...

    So my collection is now evolving... I'm branching out from omega as I get more confident; a grail came up which prompted me to sell seven missteps dropping the collection from 21 to 15 (yes, I know there's wonk maths in there). Average value of the collection is probably up to around £1200 per watch. I seem to buy watches in pairs - for example 2234 and great white, or ss and gold cap pie pans; I think I like being able to contrast two similar models. Almost all of my recent buys have been from the forum as I focus on condition rather than price, and can't be bothered to sort ebay twice a day looking for gold amongst the dross.

    I'm pretty sure I know what my next watch is - a fellow members I've been coveting; then I want a Gemini 4 to pair (see!) with my 145.022.

    The question is, from those of you who recognise where I am, what's next? Does the value continue to climb? Do numbers grow or stabilise? Where will most of my purchases come from?

    Fascinated to hear if, as I suspect, we all follow the same path.
     
  2. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 4, 2014

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    Gemini 4 is pretty awesome I love mine
     
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  3. NT931 Sep 4, 2014

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    Hi mothra, having gone through a similar journey and evolution in the short space of 3 years since I bought my first mechanical watch, I identify with many of your points.

    I think the evolution of preferences is something all of us go through, till we generally stablise around particular preferences. Personally, I've realized that I'm much more a dress watch guy than a sports watch guy, I'm not a huge fan of chronographs (though I own 2), and that my sweet spot size-wise is the 'mid-size' of 36-39mm.

    Like you, I've too branched out from Omega, and in the last 9 months, I haven't bought a single Omega but a few others from non-Omega brands. For example, thanks to Warren, I'm now in a JLC phase. Liking non-Omegas is of course not a bad thing at all as many members here own and love various brands and models, vintage and modern.

    And finally, the slow creep upwards of my purchase prices bugs me a little too. I think we can't run away from the fact that some grail watches do cost more (eg. Pateks), but I'm fortunate so far that my depleted watch fund has allowed me to resist temptation for now!
     
  4. Hijak Sep 4, 2014

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    + 1::love::
     
  5. Mothra Sep 4, 2014

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    :)
    See, Loads of similarities.... 8 dress watches, 5 sports, 2 of which are chronos, and the other two somewhere in between. Last watch bought from Warren. The other members watch I mentioned is a jlc. Not saying any more at the moment in case I jinx it. Also utterly skint!
     
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  6. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Sep 4, 2014

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    I was told years ago, "focus!" Or I would run out of money, and be left with too many things not really worth having.

    of course restraint, the moment it is suggested, can appear impossible.

    My experience has been that each time I go off piste and purchase a watch outside of my focus, it dilutes my collection, and more importantly weakens my financial strength for the next 2915 or Soyuz that I find.

    i travel, constantly. (Three continents last week) . I often find interesting little caches around, but I could easily go broke without discipline. Just occasionally I have found really interesting things, and snap. The lesson I have learned is, that if they are out of my focus, when I buy them I don't really enjoy them.

    For example I bought a small collection of NOS Prim watches in Prague a few years back. Absolutely beautiful, little gems of defiant socialism. (One was a "Diplomat" issued to the ambassadors around the world). The average price was £270 each so no harm done. However they sit in my safe, and dilute not only my finances, but possibly more worryingly my attention.

    so now, it's focus. My focus also narrows as my collection grows. What started as simply "Speedmasters" is now moving to "Pre 1976 Speedmasters". That's so I can justify the Soyuz!

    lastly my watch collection is my pension. Years ago I watched as my £8000 savings were decimated by professionals in the stock market. I vowed never to let someone else have fun with, or risk, my money again. It's my wealth, and if it's going to be lost, it will be because I screw up, not some faceless suit.

    (Yes I know decimated means one in ten removed. That's why i said it!)
     
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  7. speedbird Sep 4, 2014

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    My first love was and is Rolex. When I started, I thought I had to have the best of the best: 1675 GMTs, 1665 DRSD, 16710 GMT, Sub this and Sub that. Been there and done that. I didn't absolutely love them. However I did call in love with the humble AirKing and consumed ever bit of knowledge on them. I learned to specialize. The heavy hitters are now gone . I came to the realization that an AirKing made me as happy as a DRSD and that having a ~$20k watch on my wrist was a liability.

    Then came Omega and Zenith.

    I find I enjoy sub-40mm time only classics. They're almost hardly ever desirable or in some cases very expensive but I give them a good home. My only real criteria, with a couple of exceptions, is an in-house movement.
     
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  8. shaun hk Fairy nuffer Sep 4, 2014

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    Cruising ebay late one night in October 2012 I found an old Omega (being sold out of Ukraine or somewhere) it was only US$300 so I put a bid on it. And lo and behold no one bid after me, despite the fact there were several "bidders" before me. I won, but knew something was a little fishy so did some research and posted a thread on OF. Dennis kindly pointed out the many non original parts in the "very rare genuine Omega" I had won and as it was a complete frankenfake I escaped from the sale but was now hooked on OF.

    Since then I have bought a couple of bumpers, a seamster cosmic, a speedie pro, an automatic speedie, a Rolex, a vintage Seiko (fleeced again, knew nothing about the brand and didn't ask first, but this time I learnt from it). Also incoming were a vintage Heuer chrono and an SM300, and a very old UG compur, there may be others that have slipped the memory.

    I have learned that dress watches don't work for me, bye bye bumpers and Cosmic and that I do like sports watches and chrono's.

    I am very close to buying a Planet Ocean LE, but this will be a large part of my watch funds tied up in one watch, and I don't know if this is sensible. Though it will be good to have something to wear in the rainy season, I spend a lot of time outside and do not like to wear vintage on days when we get tropical rain.

    Another bizarre thought is that if I do not get the PO I don't know what to buy next. Duplicates do not really appeal to me and I am content with my imperfect SM300 and adore my speedie.

    Thanks for the thread, it has at least got me thinking!
     
    on wrist.jpg
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  9. Mothra Sep 5, 2014

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    :) Spacefruit, my only concern is will you be able to cash in your pension when the time comes? I have a mental picture of you wrapped in a blanket eating baked beans but cackling as you admire your speedy collection.

    Speedbird, I love the idea of being THE expert in a particular area. Not worked out what yet. AS I mentioned though, I'm going kind of the other way - spinning small purchase up into heavy hitters (for me). I wonder if that process will reverse....

    Shaun, one thing I have learned.... there's always another grail. I've not being doing this long but already have used the 'This is the last one' line too many times already to get away with it with the wife...
     
  10. Dablitzer Sep 5, 2014

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    Interesting read, Stuart

    I have come to realise that collecting for me is mainly out of habit, and being in that moment, because I am never into one particular model for very long...always evolving....Too many distractions! But that's just me.

    The variants in Omega in particular filled that need. ;) and I would probably get bored having like 10 of the same speedies...Or 5 Pie Pans (Even though I know they are all slightly different in their own way..) I can see the appeal, but it's not for me.....Yet. I also don't like the idea of having all my money tied up in one watch. Something special usually rears it's head at the most inconvenient of times...

    Recently I have been slightly attracted to the 30mil movements of the military era (of which I lack any real knowledge) and early Seamaster bumpers that are relatively cheap compared to other models. I've always been attracted to something that little bit unusual, and that I haven't seen before...I like special order models, and script variants.

    My Omega collection started out liking the manual wind SM's of the 1950's.... Then through Mike and Kyle mainly, I got really interested in Constellations. The variants astonished me, especially the earlier ones with the 36mm cases.

    Now I just collect what I feel would enhance my collection, I don't particularly mind branching out, for instance I wanted to find a nice Pole-router in black and steel because the dial design was Genta, so I did, and then a nice Kontiki etc etc.... Mostly through seeing various models in Wruw! :whistling:

    The last year I have enjoyed larger watches, moving to Speedies, which initially I didn't like, starting with a transistional, realising it wasn't SO huge on my wrists, giving more versatility to my collection, and also watches of the 70's. I have also enjoyed the Chronographs in various iterations. I love the cal. 320's with alpha hands, and the case designs Of that era.

    I didn't think of 70's watches as investment pieces but I think certain models will eventually become pretty collectable due to the size, and retro appeal.

    Anyway, most of my need and want has been bore out of this forum, so thanks for the journey so far! :thumbsup:
     
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  11. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Sep 5, 2014

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    I enjoyed reading your thoughts and perspective re: watch collecting and more specifically your attitude towards watches as an investment.

    Many watch collectors will make broad proclamations to the effect of..."watches are terrible investment." The better likelihood is that the people who sage this advice are most likely terrible investors.

    When it comes to potential returns, fine watches behave no differently than any other collectible and are subject to very basic economic theory: Teach a parrot to say supply and demand and you've got a parrot with a Harvard MBA.
     
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  12. Davidt Sep 5, 2014

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    I've just started in this game and currently have two Speedmasters. A '66 and a '69.

    I've convinced my self that ultimately I'll end up with these two plus and 'Ed White' and a modern diver (either the new master coaxial or a watchco SM300).

    After reading some of the replies here I'm starting to get a little twitchy as I can recognise some of the signs! :whistling:
     
  13. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Sep 5, 2014

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    I am just a simple watch enthusiast. That enthusiasm ranges widely & capriciously across the spectrum of watches, more so today than in years past.

    Some acquisitions have been short-term tenants, while others are now established homesteaders.

    I like it that way, and will continue on that path.
     
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  14. Mothra Sep 5, 2014

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    Watches may well be a terrible investment, but if I even get close to break even one day it'll still be the cheapest hobby I've ever had by orders of magnitude. I spent £5000 restoring my Kawasaki, and its now worth as much as £2000 - and I'm not including tools in the costs there...

    Rich, I suspect you are comfortably not going to make a loss on yours either...
     
  15. Mothra Sep 5, 2014

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    If I were to offer a bet that you'll have a larger and more diverse collection than that in 12 months I suspect there won't be a single taker on the board....
     
  16. Mothra Sep 5, 2014

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    Do you mind me asking how long you've been collecting? That seems like a pretty healthy attitude. I still get occasional attacks of the 'Gollums'.
     
  17. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Sep 5, 2014

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    I collect vintage omegas exclusively - I like the variety, availability and relatively undervalued status of the watches. I am not a "completist" by any means and if I like a particular model, am more than happy to buy several examples of it provided the condition and the price are right. And it is both a hobby and investment for me in that order - I consider it as part of diversifying my assets.
     
  18. Darlinboy Pratts! Will I B******S!!! Sep 5, 2014

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    I am NOT a collector! ::bleh::

    But, I've been an enthusiast for half a dozen years or so, since purchasing my first mechanical watch (a Rolex Sub) while vacationing in St. Thomas. Not a bad way to start what has become a very enjoyable hobby.
     
  19. mondodec Editor Constellation Collectors Blog Sep 5, 2014

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    Interesting post Mothra. I think anyone who 'collects' is mildly obsessive-compulsive, and generally if it's not watches it will be something else (Cars, guns, bikes, women, barbed wire, militaria, books, coins, glass eyes, pottery, paintings...you name it). So, arguably we are talking about impulses( emotional drivers) that often override rational thought and produce what on the surface are acquisitive behaviours.

    I think to answer your question about trajectory, and I'm sensing that you would rather continue happily along the trajectory rather than falling off after a bad dose of the "Is that all there is" syndrome, is to look at what transforms the unconscious impulse to acquire into a hobby and integrate it into our lifestyle. And again, I would say you hit the nail on the head when you described your efforts to play with movements and understand the mechanics if not physics of horology and began to make more astute decision about condition, horological importance and desirability. So you've added a good dose of rationality into the equation and, in effect, become an informed hobbyist.

    Once the compulsion to simply acquire numbers has been tempered, the hobby can go off in many directions, such as seeking out others with the same hobby (hence forums like this), joining a watchmaking class nat the local college and branching out into personal contacts and relationships that enrich the experiences of the hobby, Then there are watch fairs, horological pilgrimages to the Jura Mountains region or St-Imier (We did that a year or so ago at the invitation of a Swiss collector I met through my blog) and other activities that allow us to 'people' our hobby.

    Of course, the acquisition of knowledge that can be shared is a major by-product of the hobby and also provides the substance to add the investment element to collecting. So, perhaps instead of a single trajectory one can add quite a few different branch lines that make collecting a lifetime pursuit instead of a solitary activity in front of a computer based on the next big acquisition (This is a generalised comment and not relating to you).

    Cheers

    Desmond
     
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