I was inspired by @mattonthewater post about building vintage SM300. I was looking around info wise, and as some of you saw, found what I thought is a fair deal on the complete case from Cousins UK. I sent wire transfer on Friday, so now the wait i son for the money to get to them, and for case to get to me. I figured, even if I decide to scrap the idea, I can turn around and sell the case for same amount as I paid, as it is almost 1/2 the price that About Time (ex watchco) is asking for.

This will take time, as I am hoping to find good deals on major parts needed. Things such as movement, dial and hands. To start with, I have some general questions, and ideas I wanted to run by you all, and see if I am on the right track.

Dial: Will be no date version, as it looks cleaner and better to me, so 165.024
Hands: Doing quite a bit of reading, and looks like both versions of hands have been used with 165.024 (baton and sword)
Now my 1st question is this. Looks like baton hands were used mostly between 62-64 (and sometimes in 65). Case comes with screw down crown and not Naiad. Again, reading shows me that Naiad crown was used up until 67, so if I am to try and recreate time correct piece, I should be looking at sword hands due to the crown, correct?

Movement: Since this will be no date version, movement that I need is Cal 552. i know that cal 550 was used for NA versions, but bit of reading seems to suggest that 552 is better between the 2. Am I correct here?
In terms of movement, since I am not doing this to make money, I dont think that movement donor watch matters. What I mean is, i dont need to get old SM300 just to use movement from it, I can get any watch that has cal 552 and call it a day. I know some people will scoff at this, but i dont think for what I am trying to do it makes much difference. Correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption

Speaking of movement, I would like to try and find movement that has serial number from 67+, so that it would match hands and crown as discussed above. Website I checked suggest serial from 25M-32M range. Does that sound right?

I will update this thread as I go along. Thanks all for the help with above, and any future questions I am surely to have
PS: if anyone has any tips, hints or something I may have overlooked, please do share.

 

The big issue about the source of the movement you use is that if you are able to find an actual original SM300 movement and build around that Omega *may* accept he watch for service and issue an extract identifying it as a legit SM300. If you don't they possibly won't on either count, certainly not the extract which follows the movement. Now this may not matter to you but it does to some and has a massive impact on value in the resale arena. A watch rebuilt from random bits is basically a Franken, Bitsa or plain Fake depending on your viewpoint whereas one made up exactly like it was when it left the factory is like Tiggers's Broom i.e. all the case bits have been replaced but you could (tenuously) argue that it is a faithful recreation or thoroughly serviced piece. It is all a bit academic IMO but it does affect value.

One other thing you may have overlooked is that Cousins have a terrible reputation for customer service. They are known to refuse returns or refunds when damaged or incorrect parts are sent out or even if the parts never arrive. I would use them for a £5 strap but for £2k worth of bits? Possibly not. I am not suggesting they are scammers, they have been around for years but their attitude sometimes means it amounts to the same thing. You will probably be fine using them but remember that trade declaration you ticked when you registered? That was not for your benefit, it was to protect them and (possibly illegally) remove your consumer rights. Pay the extra for a tracked insured shipping service.

 

Cal 550 has 17 jewels, cal 552 has 24 jewels, no other difference.

The service issue has been discussed multiple times here and it has been concluded that Omega will service it regardless of where the movement came from (as long as it is genuine Omega of course) but there is no reason to send it to them when any competent watchmaker can service a cal 55x.

 

Thanks for the info so far. In regards to movement being from SM300 or another donor watch, read stories that Watchco may have been using non sm300 movements for some of their SM300s they were selling. Of course this was never proven, but some people believe this to be the case (on OF and other watch boards) Regardless, I wouldnt send this watch to Omega for any sort of service. Costs too much and takes a lot longer than a lot of other places. Since I dont have any idea on how to service movements, plan is to source all the parts and have a good watchmaker do the service and to put it together. There is a certain board member here that I heard great things about, who lives in Canada and did this before, so I am thinking of going with him when that time comes

As for Cousins, I read a lot of reviews before placing an order, and some did mention their CS leaves a lot to be desired, but didnt really find stories about shady business practices mentioned. I did get tracked, insured, signature required shipping option. Hopefully there is no need for it, but you never know.

Thanks again.

 

I think it is a fair assumption some, maybe most Watchcos came with Geneve or other movements based on the fact that two very recent ones were sold by the makers with extracts stating SM300 and fetched about double what would have been expected without. There can't actually be that many loose donor genuine SM300 movements out there any more I should think and in any event Omegas records aren't totally complete. This is what I meant by it mattering to some where the movement started out, it was supported by those 2 on eBay that it does matter in terms of value.

As you mentioned, I wasn't accusing Cousins of dishonesty, simply making you aware of the disquiet about some of their practices but it sounds like you have your eyes open to this. It is very unlikely you will have an issue but there are are some pretty annoyed people out there who feel shafted by Cousins over one thing or another. It crops up on UK forums fairly regularly.

 

I think with Watchco the exception to the rule would be that they used a movement which came originally from a SM300 and you can safely assume that almost all of them on the market today have a 552 which did not come from this model. The easiest way to prove this is of course to pull an extract for said Watchco watch, although I think the majority of owners would realise that in 99% of the time this would be a complete waste of their CHF 150.

 

I bought a Watcho, and of course the 552 does not come from an old SM300. They sold a couple recently with a movement sourced from an old SM300, but for a much higher price. I don't understand why paying more for this as the watcho is more a very nice alternative to a new watch than a genuine vintage one, in my opinion, and therefore having an extract with the right reference does not add value (unless you plan to fool buyers at some point, but I'm being cynical of course...).

 

But that is the point, it does add value, the 'much higher price' shows this does it not? There is indeed the possibility that deceit further down the line is the reason why they fetched more or it could be what I referred to earlier in that what really is the difference between an extract approved Watchco SM300 with brand new parts and and original 60s watch which has been serviced by OSC and had all the original parts junked and replaced with the service equivalent. Not a lot IMO, it is an esoteric and academic distinction, yet the serviced original would be worth more on the open market than a new build with random movement because the extract says it is a SM300. I think I may have strayed into the realms of philosophical debate!

 

The funny thing is I'm sure we will see in the future a new build Watchco with an officiated 552 which came originally from a 1960's SM300 that has been re-re-stored back to a vintage look, with an original case, handset, bezel and dial all in aged, vintage condition. The mind boggles!

My view is if you want vintage buy it and if you want a new build 300 and are not bothered about authenticity then buy one of those, but don't think a Watchco SM300 wil be viewed as a collectable vintage piece by the majority, if not all, of the experienced collectors.

 

I hope you are wrong but i believe you are right to say we will see some "vintage Watchco's" in the future, and could not agree more with your second paragraph....

 

No universal answer here, but for me definitely not...

 

To me personally it would not add value. One movement was luckier than other and went into SM300, while other went into geneve for example. I highly doubt that Omega at any point said, these 552s are special, so they go into SM300. Odds are that a lot of these movements came off the same production line one after the other, and by luck of draw one went this way, one went that way. To say one is more special that the other, and thus it cost a lot more, is utterly foolish in my mind.

But then again, maybe I am foolish one thinking this way, and SM300 movements are in fact a lot more special than non SM300 ones haha. Maybe they have some magic dust sprinkled in them or something, who knows

 

I totally agree they are identical but the fact remains that come resale time, the SM300 recreation with the magic bit of paper saying it is a SM300, or at least the potential to get such a piece of paper by virtue of a movement from a junked SM300 is worth more. The market has spoken. It bothers me not a jot since I have no dog in this fight, I neither have, nor have any impending plan of getting, any SM300, either original or otherwise.

 

Can you cite examples? I know Watchco was asking more for some that had "original" movements in them, but do we know for certain what the selling prices were, and if others SM300's that didn't have those movements sold by the same people at the same time were less expensive?

 

I believe those 2 in question were originally BIN but got converted to auctions which ran their term, so unless some skullduggery took place, the price paid was the hammer price and that hammer price was noticeably more than similar recreations have been fetching recently. I can't find the auctions yet but will take another look later and post a link when I do.

EDIT: Here is the thread on here discussing them with links to the original auctions on p1, seems they reached around $4000 a piece, head only:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/sea...g-and-no-bin-anymore.45980/page-3#post-556127

Aren't too many Watchcos on ebay and admittedly none others direct from the former Watchco themselves I can see but I did find a 166.024 Watchco which sold without extract for circa $2000, supposedly in excellent condition.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omega-SM3...461414?hash=item4b0819e2e6:g:fEYAAOSwxg5X1W0mPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

Not the cast iron proof you demanded I know but I think it does support what I contend above.

 

Fair enough - I do question if 2 watches makes "the market" but sure, whatever...

Cheers, Al

 

I perhaps may throw a monkey wrench into your theory. Around same time as the 2 Watchco actual SM300 movements were selling, there was another SM300 from private seller as well. This one, according to seller, had old SM300 movement, but it wasnt "watchco" model. Instead owener did upgrades himself to watchco parts (or wherever he found them) In the end it was a same watch, with all new parts and old SM300 movement. This fella had hard time selling his watch for <$3K. He brought price down more and more, and someone snagged it ~$2500 in the end.

Of course he didnt have a magic piece of paper that watchco had, so that probably played a part. Like I said, to me personally it doesnt make any difference. There is certain lore attached to the SM300, and thus some people are willing to pay more for essentially same part, just because it came out of SM300 case. Right or wrong? Up to the individual to decide

 

Regardless of who thinks what, can anyone let me know about my actual questions. Am I on the right track with my assumptions listed in the OP.

Thanks

 

To your OP, It's my understanding that no dates were push in crowns and date models got the screw down crowns. Your serial number by date is good enough for your date range you're looking at I would say.

 

Thanks for that info. Perhaps no date version with screw down crown may be harder to find, but I did see several examples of them.







Not saying you are wrong for sure, maybe above examples arent fully original, so who knows.