Pitting on Rolex DJ 16000 - dealbreaker or not?

CoDiffe · Dec 27, 2019

Hi OF -

Im seriously contemplating snagging this 82 DJ with papers and original purchase receipt. Seller bought directly from original owner and we believe it’s unpolished. Freshly serviced. There is some pitting between the lugs and I’ve got a picture of that below. I’ve never dealt with pitting before but is this a dealbreaker? I see people listing watches stating no pitting so it’s obviously a big deal just not sure how big. Help appreciated!

Fritz · Dec 27, 2019

The marks on the bezel are soft enough that I’d bet the bezel has been heavily polished.
And that pitting... did the guy work in a salt mine?

it would have to be very cheap before I’d consider it.

CoDiffe · Dec 27, 2019

Yeah the pitting looks really bad but then again I don’t think I’ve ever seen pitting before.

vicsdca · Dec 27, 2019

Not a dealbreaker. It's even fixable if you wanted to send it to rolliworks

wristpirate · Dec 27, 2019

Afaik pitting is common enough on vintage rolex. However, I personally would require a chunky discount for it. When you come to sell expect a lot of people put off by it.

CoDiffe · Dec 27, 2019

Here’s the pitting on the other side

Dan S · Dec 27, 2019

It should have a modest effect on value, but not a dealbreaker. The bezel bothers me more aesthetically, but obviously it can be replaced.

Evitzee · Dec 27, 2019

So what causes the pitting between the lugs? Corrosive junk that never gets flushed out during normal cleaning?

Dan S · Dec 27, 2019

Evitzee
So what causes the pitting between the lugs? Corrosive junk that never gets flushed out during normal cleaning?

This was from the era when Rolex still used 316 SS in their DJ references, which is not as corrosion resistant as the current 904 alloy. I have often seen pitting on Rolex cases from the 60s and 70s, sometimes very severe pitting under the flange of the caseback. Without knowing the history of a particular watch, it's hard to guess exactly what caused the corrosion in this particular case, but even perspiration will be corrosive over time, and it's not too surprising that it would collect behind the endlinks.

steveb73 · Dec 27, 2019

If you really like it and intend to keep it ask for a discount and possibly get it repaired. If you think you might sell it on later, maybe look elsewhere as it'll probably put quite a few buyers off.

jaguar11 · Dec 27, 2019

There was a big discussion on pitting, it's causes and effect on the case some time ago on the VRF. May be worth having a search on there because as I remember there was some really informed discussion. To me the watch looks nice. I would be more concerned if there is pitting under the case back but would expect a discount as it stands. I can't quite tell from the pictures but my understanding is that once this corrosion has started it will continue unless removed.

janice&fred · Dec 27, 2019

well the watch has obviously been polished quite a bit so we won't dwell on that too much considering the pitting. like others have said it's just really a matter of price. the smart thing to do if you get it for the right price, what we have done many times, is simply buy an empty DJ case with a compatible reference to match your damaged one. establish contact with watch guys in Kowloon as the nite market usually has a few vendors with assortments of empty DJ and date cases for sale. you would be surprised how plentiful and cheap they are. both lady's and men's. the movements are harvested out of them, chances are to "create" more desirable models, and the genuine and legitimate leftover cases wind up in the markets.

southtexas · Dec 27, 2019

janice&fred
well the watch has obviously been polished quite a bit so we won't dwell on that too much considering the pitting. like others have said it's just really a matter of price. the smart thing to do if you get it for the right price, what we have done many times, is simply buy an empty DJ case with a compatible reference to match your damaged one. establish contact with watch guys in Kowloon as the nite market usually has a few vendors with assortments of empty DJ and date cases for sale. you would be surprised how plentiful and cheap they are. both lady's and men's. the movements are harvested out of them, chances are to "create" more desirable models, and the genuine and legitimate leftover cases wind up in the markets.

Definitely good advice here. It comes down to price for me. And I personally wouldn’t pay a premium for box and papers on a 5 digit DJ...there are tons out there. That pitting cannot be fixed without compromising the lug engravings. Dial is a beauty and hard to come by. Empty cases and/or bezels are easy to find. But if it was me, if the price was right Id buy it and leave it as is. Bear in mind the pitting in that location can compromise water resistance. Good luck!

Om3ga321 · Dec 28, 2019

Try Rolliworks but discount the price.

southtexas · Dec 28, 2019

Om3ga321
Try Rolliworks but discount the price.

The pitting can’t be fixed without ruining the engravings, plus the cost to ruin them is more than simply buying a new case.

dx009 · Dec 28, 2019

I saw some professionals fixing holes (looked like dimples) in a vintage Doxa diving watch with very good results. Basically they would use some sort of welding technique to fill the holes and then just polish the case back (that was the part that had the holes) to even it out.

I'm guessing that the same could be done here but, as some one has said, it would ruin the engraving... Although technically speaking I imagine someone could reproduce that as well but at what costs... ?

I'm more intrigued by the fact that Rolex used such bad metal for their watches. I've had watches many decades older than this one that were worn and not kept in storage that had no problem whatsoever (apart from scratches of course).

southtexas · Dec 28, 2019

dx009
I saw some professionals fixing holes (looked like dimples) in a vintage Doxa diving watch with very good results. Basically they would use some sort of welding technique to fill the holes and then just polish the case back (that was the part that had the holes) to even it out.

I'm guessing that the same could be done here but, as some one has said, it would ruin the engraving... Although technically speaking I imagine someone could reproduce that as well but at what costs... ?

I'm more intrigued by the fact that Rolex used such bad metal for their watches. I've had watches many decades older than this one that were worn and not kept in storage that had no problem whatsoever (apart from scratches of course).

pitting is seen in some cases, and attributed to the metal and/or the wearer’s job/sweat. Many cases are perfectly clean, some are pitted so badly they’re welded shut.

JwRosenthal · Dec 28, 2019

I like the idea of sourcing another case that’s in better shape- but then keep in mind it would be a franken of sorts considering it wouldn’t be as it left the factory. But if your intent is to wear it and not flip it, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Keep the original case obviosuly if you do decide to sell later so the new owner has the choice of originality. All that considered with the cost of new case and labor to do the transplant- value the watch as a Franken- which would be much lower than one in premium condition.

janice&fred · Dec 28, 2019

southtexas
pitting is seen in some cases, and attributed to the metal and/or the wearer’s job/sweat. Many cases are perfectly clean, some are pitted so badly they’re welded shut.

I think you have hit the correct hypothesis on the pitting/corrosion. nothing could be more harsh on vintage watches than the deep tropical south pacific and we have seen everything from pristine 50's watch cases to some that have literally broken in two. for a rare watch yes I could see having the case laser welded but with a common datejust no...better to simply buy a used case in better shape, or wear it as-is if the pitting isn't weakening it structurally.

janice&fred · Dec 28, 2019

JwRosenthal
I like the idea of sourcing another case that’s in better shape- but then keep in mind it would be a franken of sorts considering it wouldn’t be as it left the factory. But if your intent is to wear it and not flip it, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Keep the original case obviosuly if you do decide to sell later so the new owner has the choice of originality. All that considered with the cost of new case and labor to do the transplant- value the watch as a Franken- which would be much lower than one in premium condition.

I know this might be getting a bit off-topic but the term "franken" can be applied to just about any watch that has had it's visual or internal components altered. I think if a watch was creatively altered without disclosure to boost it's value then yes, but to replace a faulty part, whatever that part is to make the watch more useful or reliable is ok. same with changing dials in certain mainstream models. I say mainstream as opposed to something uncommon or highly sought after. for example, if someone had the datejust in question but wanted a more readable dial-hand combo and had original and compatible rolex components for that model installed, then that's understandable as the replacement combo really wouldn't be boosting the market value as much as simply making the watch more useful to it's owner. replacing a weak/damaged case with one that merely addressed that weakness without otherwise altering the appeal or value is also ok. these are old watches and are gonna need some help at times 😀