Pie-pan Connie on Hodinkee - Redial vs Fake?

NT931 · Mar 29, 2015

hi all,
Hodinkee has featured a pie-pan Connie with a BOR bracelet in a recent post. (the link to the actual sale is here)

Someone did express some concern about the dial authenticity - that it was a fake. In all fairness, the Hodinkee writer did add those concerns in the article.

With my limited experience, it just looked like a redial (failed MOY test, crosshairs looked slightly askew). I wouldn't have known it as a fake dial.

So my question is - how does one tell a redial from a fake? Are there any specific tells? Personally I'd avoid both, but some might still accept a redial but not a fake. Thanks in advance!

LouS · Mar 29, 2015

Guys, can I suggest that it's super helpful if you post images of stuff you are talking about - saves us all a bunch of clicking back and forth and may get you more answers to your concerns.

That said, it looked odd to me too. I was surprised to see that it made WSW. What's the consensus?

kyle L · Mar 29, 2015

The tells for me are the gap between the applied lettering and the thin fonts. Over the years they've become pretty distinguishable.

http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2006/09/which-dial-is-fake.html

LouS · Mar 29, 2015

What's this distinction between fake and redial? I understand the semantic difference, but how could one tell from the look of the thing? Both would be non-original paint jobs, no?

kyle L · Mar 29, 2015

LouS
What's this distinction between fake and redial? I understand the semantic difference, but how could one tell from the look of the thing? Both would be non-original paint jobs, no?

They all have the same tells: the same thin fonts, lack of bevel on date window, black styled indices with T Swiss T on them. This looks like the same one in Desmond's article.

http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2012/06/yet-another-constellation-fake-alert.html

dsio · Mar 29, 2015

Yea it does actually, the date window surround is the suspect shape, redial can explain the lack of tritium on dial + hands in spite of T SwissT but not the shape of dial furniture being wrong.

X350 XJR · Mar 29, 2015

The stars on the cased back are incorrect and look like the ones found on known counterfeit 14900/167.005 cases.

The entire watch is suspect.

First photo is a genuine 167.005.

Second one is from the OPs link.

gatorcpa · Mar 29, 2015

I would need to see the inside to be sure, but if the reference is 14902-62, then it is almost surely a fake case also. The research is all over the Internet and these dials and cases are still being sold here in the US.

The auction house needs to do its homework and inform the seller of its findings.

Not good.
gatorcpa

X350 XJR · Mar 29, 2015

I bet it's a 14900, not yet seen a counterfeit 14902 and the fakers rarely seem to care about matching case references with correct movements anyway.

Hands are too long as well.

NT931 · Mar 30, 2015

Thanks guys! Sorry Lou, I should've posted the pictures - will do so next time, just plain forgot as I was dashing off someplace (ward round, as a matter of fact ...)

About the bevelled date window, shucks I was definitely fooled. I thought there was a bevel on the lower edge! 🤦

Now you guys have got me thinking about the BOR bracelet.

Looking at the shape, and the fact that it's remarkably clean, it looks like the fake ones that Norman highlighted last yr. So it looks like the entire watch is bogus - case, dial, and BOR bracelet? Geez...

georgetownhoya · Mar 30, 2015

Yikes, not good! I was in touch with Alan Bedwell of Foundwell about the watch and shared this thread. After reviewing the watch, he determined it was in fact counterfeit. He has pulled it from the auction and returned it to the person from whom he purchased it - who was also duped. Thank you so much for your help!

Best regards,
Eric Wind

P.S. I updated the HODINKEE listing about it as well and will include the watch as a cautionary Bidder Beware this week with a link to this thread.

LouS · Mar 30, 2015

georgetownhoya
...will include the watch as a cautionary Bidder Beware this week with a link to this thread.

That's a great idea Eric.

NT931 · Mar 30, 2015

Thanks Eric! Another example of how the wonderful collective wisdom of the forum members helped the vintage community at large👍 ... Awesome!

Drawarms · Mar 30, 2015

georgetownhoya
Yikes, not good! I was in touch with Alan Bedwell of Foundwell about the watch and shared this thread. After reviewing the watch, he determined it was in fact counterfeit. He has pulled it from the auction and returned it to the person from whom he purchased it - who was also duped. Thank you so much for your help!

Best regards,
Eric Wind

P.S. I updated the HODINKEE listing about it as well and will include the watch as a cautionary Bidder Beware this week with a link to this thread.

Great job Eric.

pitpro · Mar 30, 2015

gatorcpa
I would need to see the inside to be sure, but if the reference is 14902-62, then it is almost surely a fake case also. The research is all over the Internet and these dials and cases are still being sold here in the US.

The auction house needs to do its homework and inform the seller of its findings.

Not good.
gatorcpa

Not piling on, but I own a 14902-62 and it's fine😉
At least Desmond's warning was concerning 14900-62 not 14902-62
http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2013/09/these-fake-constellation-14900-62-sc.html

georgetownhoya · Mar 30, 2015

Here are a couple photos. I learned from Alan that the bracelet did not come with the watch, but was paired. Alan and I think the bracelet is legitimate.

X350 XJR · Mar 30, 2015

Just as I thought, 14900.

An incorrect movement as well. Can't see the caliber number, but the bridge is not for an adjusted movement.

georgetownhoya · Mar 30, 2015

Exactly, it is not a chronometer movement and was taken from another watch.

dsio · Mar 30, 2015

You see these 14900 pop up for sale from legit reasonably educated pickers, amateur dealers and pawn shops all the time on eBay, its scary to think how many of them are in circulation.