Completely out of the blue I get an e-mail from a chap from Peru (working in the States) offering me a speedy 145.012 for $2150 including shipping. I play along and tell him that I find his asking price agreeable, provided he posts a pic of the watch next to a sign that says "Hello Bart" ...

 

I decided to snub the watch because of the DN90 bezel.

 

I believe this is the same watch that I mentioned as being posted on PuristS then later discussed here.

I've yet to get a response from the seller asking if he would accept my check drawn on a Nigerian Bank

 

Same thing happened to me... Played along for a bit.... I asked for a photo with my name and watch set to 630 and I got a photo with my name and watch set to 630...then I asked for video of chrono working and I got a video of chrono working... He said he could not take pictures of movement because he could not get back off expert in picture the back was off in most... Also he posted flawless English but in email English was not good... Easy to tell scammer but the photo and video were pretty impressive

 

What is the angle here? You buy a fake watch via paypal. When you discover it's fake you file a SNAD claim. Then seller then has to pay for return shipping. During this whole time Paypal has his money and you have his watch.

Anyone looking for a vintage Speedy will be informed and not easily fooled. So how does the scammer expect to make money from this? Insisting on wire payments? Hoping the buyer is ignorant of Paypal buyer protections?

 

I've asked this question several times on this forum and I've never gotten a good answer. My speculation (and it's just that) is that these people set up a PayPal account with fake ID, take the money and abandon that account, then open up another account with a different fake ID (and different IP address, etc.). This is NOT easy to do, but perhaps the rewards are worth it.

 

This. Due to the fact that the country isn't first world, full of good consumer lags, banking not being developed as it should etc., he'll just simply make a one time (or a few times if he sells more in a few days, weeks..) paypal account, maybe even a one time use bank account and once he's got the dough he'll just take the money out and abandon it.

I assume there are plenty of ways to disappear off the radar, like use fake ids in case paypal asks for verification and things like that.

 

agree to the price under the condition of a face-2-face with his peruvian friend working in the US ...

I'd take it from that ...

 

Interesting. So the victim here is really Paypal. If you're a buyer you get your money back from a SNAD claim.

 

Yeah, what can they do, ban whole countries from using their service, that would reduce their revenue; tighten the rules and their security measures, again, it would mean a reduction in the number of users. These things happen EVERYWHERE however, and it's not like they'll file a police report for every single such case. Maybe they should!

 

Why should they ban countries wholesale? They just raise their fees to everyone to cover their losses from scammers.

 

Essentially from what I can understand, if they can get you to make a partial payment, with the second half due upon receipt of the watch, PayPal does not cover the buyer for part shipments and payments for goods.

Also sometimes the shipping cost is non refundable. It's seems like a lot of work to make a few bucks, but these guys are persistent, and they are getting better pics, set time, write messages etc.

I think bottom line anyone that has the wherewithal to know a watch is a 145.012 or a 105.003 and email you pictures etc is savy enough to know the real price of these watches....

 

There goes all the uncle watch threads

 

I can guarantee that, due to the fact that laws are nowhere near as strict there, they will be able, for example, to make paypal accounts using not fake IDs but IDs of friends, relatives, strangers... Just stay away from people that offer a price too good to be true that, above all, hasn't got a lot of sales, suspicious feedback, etc.

 

In 2013 I paid for a watch via paypal and the seller turned out to be a scammer (not Peruvian). After receiving the paypal funds, he provided a fake tracking number and then said that the watch had been held up in customs and I needed to pay USD650 to get it out.

After I told him this was a scam, this was his reply "You are accusing me of fraud, that is called slander, me and my whole family works in the government, take the consequences. even this time you know what you have to do"

Thankfully I got the full payment back from paypal but lesson learnt

 

Did you ever tested that buyer protection? I read sometimes, it doesn't work...

 

Even though Peru is a neighbouring country, I've been scammed as well, but I managed to get my money back via buyer protection. It took me a bit of work but apart from not having the watch I wanted at the time (a nice 145.007), I managed to survive. Won't be buying anything from Peru but for ceviche anytime soon, though.

 

Yes I have! Someone sold me a fake Railmaster XXL once. Maybe it was hubris on my end that I would never fall for a fake watch, but the pictures were bad enough and I was interested enough that I bought the watch. In-hand it was clear that it was a fake.

Scammer in fact did not even deny that the watch was fake but rather went like "you should have asked questions before you bought".. and I'm like "really? The assumption here is that the watch is not fake, I don't need to ask you". So I filed a claim over Paypal, scammer fought the entire time. Ignored my requests to refund until literally the last day, did not send money for return shipping until literally the last day, and did not refund the returned watch until literally the last day. Basically delayed and delayed at each step until Paypal forced his hand. Took a whole month but I got my money back, and scammer was out of shipping both ways.

If I had my way, I would have destroyed the damn fake, and I actually requested to do so, but Paypal told me to return it.

The only way you get scammed is if you are not aware that what you got is a fake, or you do not know your rights. Fine line though, if you were expecting a vintage watch, and seller sent you an invoice that said "used Omega Speedmaster Professional" and sent you a real but doctored Speedy Pro, that's quite a grey area and you may be SOL.

 

@WatchVaultNYC
Thanks! I had also a positive experience with PayPal, but that was an eBay-purchase...