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Paypal for friends and family. Question on chargebacks.

Faz
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Hello all

My search on the web yielded conflicting information on the subject.

Does anybody here know for sure if a Paypal payement sent « friends and family » reversible by the sender?

Cheers
 
U
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By the sender? Uh oh, somebody got shafted!

I think only the receiver can reverse it.
 
shishy
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If you're the sender, you're only protected via goods & services.
 
Faz
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Thanks. I’m dealing with a potential buyer but he is new on the scene with no references.

Cheers
 
tikkathree
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Faz Faz
Thanks. I’m dealing with a potential buyer but he is new on the scene with no references.

Cheers
Which is a bit, sometimes, like telling you "I'm a virgin, please be gentle with me". Whether he truly is or isn't new on the scene - as opposed to having no references in his current identity you'll probably never know.

I'd never pay for goods or services on friends & family (and yes I was once stung by a lying cheat who shipped me an instruction manual for a quartz watch whilst accepting payment for an Eterna KonTiki and stonewalled because I'd been lulled into a private transaction and thought I was saving a few £££. Consequently I now video opening every package which I expect to contain a watch.) nor would I sell anything and ask to receive payment through F&F.

Him being "new on the scene" - does his story stack up? See? I don't trust him.
 
dwboston
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There are limited scenarios where a PayPal F&F payment can be reversed, at least according to some sellers here. Could be urban myth.
 
BenBagbag
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In the times it has come up here, consensus was that F&F is not foolproof if the buyer uses a credit card as one can always put up a dispute with their credit card company. I think even Venmo can be paid for with a credit card... I'd say the most foolproof way at the moment is using something like Zelle (or bitcoin but lets not go there right now).
 
Davidt
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F&F can be reversed by the sender.

Many people are adamant it cannot, but PayPal themselves told me it can.
 
BenBagbag
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Davidt Davidt
F&F can be reversed by the sender.

Many people are adamant it cannot, but PayPal themselves told me it can.
This is not through paypal though, it is through whatever credit card used. Meaning Paypal themselves won't reverse it, right?
 
Davidt
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Definitely via credit card, but there was some other spurious way it may also be reversed.

As a result I don’t accept F&F from unknown buyers for anything.
 
Faz
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Hmm.. interesting. So it's definitely not cool proof on the receiving end from what I can read here? I thought you couldn't pay for goods and services through PayPal for friends and family?
 
dwboston
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Faz Faz
Hmm.. interesting. So it's definitely not cool proof on the receiving end from what I can read here? I thought you couldn't pay for goods and services through PayPal for friends and family?

You're not supposed to, but people do it and some sellers here demand it. There was an example cited here recently of a poster who used F&F 3 times in a month for goods & services transactions and got a warning from PayPal that his account would be locked/closed if he did it again.
 
Kmart
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Davidt Davidt
Definitely via credit card, but there was some other spurious way it may also be reversed.

As a result I don’t accept F&F from unknown buyers for anything.

But what's the alternative? I suppose bank wire only? Because you're taking a much greater risk accepting goods and services since it's much easier for a buyer to screw you over if they really wanted to.
 
shishy
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Kmart Kmart
But what's the alternative? I suppose bank wire only? Because you're taking a much greater risk accepting goods and services since it's much easier for a buyer to screw you over if they really wanted to.

I guess wire transfer or Zelle would be the ideal... I had forgotten that you can pay in PayPal through a credit card and then do a chargeback on the card. That's dirty 🫨
 
Kmart
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shishy shishy
I guess wire transfer or Zelle would be the ideal... I had forgotten that you can pay in PayPal through a credit card and then do a chargeback on the card. That's dirty 🫨

I feel like you'd need a valid reason to do a chargeback though. Whereas PayPal appears to side with the buyer on most disputes.
 
shishy
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Kmart Kmart
I feel like you'd need a valid reason to do a chargeback though. Whereas PayPal appears to side with the buyer on most disputes.

Yeah, fair. I'm not sure what that process is like but I think it's reasonable to say it's harder to get a CC chargeback for a watch purchase than it is via PayPal f/f directly.
 
Larry S
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Faz Faz
Hello all

My search on the web yielded conflicting information on the subject.

Does anybody here know for sure if a Paypal payement sent « friends and family » reversible by the sender?

Cheers
No... it’s A money transfer. I use FF for OF transactions with sellers I trust, have history with or are vouched for. Never with a stranger.
 
wsfarrell
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dwboston dwboston
There was an example cited here recently of a poster who used F&F 3 times in a month for goods & services transactions and got a warning from PayPal that his account would be locked/closed if he did it again.
That was me. PayPal obviously knows that many F&F payments are NOT gifts, and they let people get away with it until one of their algorithms is triggered. It could be x F&F payments in a month, or > y dollar amount, or notes on the payment page saying "please ship to abc," etc. I don't know what the algorithm is, and I don't plan to find out.
 
FreelanceWriter
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I believe (but am not sure) that the buyer can cancel F & F, but I know for a fact that they could purposely drain the bank account after the transaction is approved initially. They could also claim that a credit card transaction was unauthorized. In the first case, seller is screwed because there's no backup funding source for F & F, so the transaction simply gets cancelled and charged back to your account. In the second case, if the CC decides that the transaction was unauthorized, PayPal won't help you no matter what the underlying facts of the dispute are and seller is screwed. Also, I don't believe sellers have any way of knowing what the funding source was on the buyer's end (without simply taking the buyer's word for it). The safest bet might be to use F & F but wait to send the item until your bank confirms that the funds have actually been collected from the buyer's bank, rather than just "posting" to your account.
 
asrnj77
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FreelanceWriter FreelanceWriter
I believe (but am not sure) that the buyer can cancel F & F, but I know for a fact that they could purposely drain the bank account after the transaction is approved initially. They could also claim that a credit card transaction was unauthorized. In the first case, seller is screwed because there's no backup funding source for F & F, so the transaction simply gets cancelled and charged back to your account. In the second case, if the CC decides that the transaction was unauthorized, PayPal won't help you no matter what the underlying facts of the dispute are and seller is screwed. Also, I don't believe sellers have any way of knowing what the funding source was on the buyer's end (without simply taking the buyer's word for it). The safest bet might be to use F & F but wait to send the item until your bank confirms that the funds have actually been collected from the buyer's bank, rather than just "posting" to your account.

I agree. Once the funds are in my PayPal account I transfer them out into my bank account. They cannot be reversed at this point and although PayPal could request the money back they won’t get it unless I get the watch back. They don’t report to credit agencies so worst case scenario is you lose the ability to use PayPal. I imagine the feeling would be mutual at that point assuming you did nothing wrong. Even if it’s charged back that’s a dispute between PayPal and the credit card company that PayPal tries to pass onto you but your transaction was only between you and PayPal. The seller should not be punished if they follow all the proper procedures
 
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