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Originality vs. Restoration: A Case Study (Tudor Sub)

  1. bazamu wincer, not a bidder Jul 24, 2017

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    Ahhh, the age old debate of whether to leave something fully original or let professionals restore it to its former glory. There's no right answer and obviously everyone has to make their own decision based on what's more important to them. But I figured I'd share a case study of a recent purchase that has just come back from LA Watchworks. I bought this Tudor Submariner about four months ago from the friend of the original owner (a funny backstory that's more appropriate for another time) and the backstory was easily verified after two conversations over the phone with the seller. These lollipop Subs are rarer than many realize, as the large, circular plot of lume is susceptible to cracking and falling out over time and Rolex would replace them with Mercedes hands.

    I've loved Tudor Subs since getting into this hobby (it was the first watch I ever bought) and this one was the most beautiful that I had ever seen (highly subjective). Blue dialed 76100s are hard to find, and even harder to find with a BEZEL like this one! Again, the importance of verifying the original story was paramount to me here, but it was clear that all of this had come out of the factory together and the watch most certainly had not been prepared in any way. The issue, however, was the lume in the hands, which had cracked and fallen out at some point previously (and left some dust on the glossy dial in random places).

    This is where the debate comes into play. Would I rather leave it as-is in a fairly unattractive configuration, or have the hands re-done by the best in the business? I guess I (sort of) understand the crowd that would've left them the same, but for your consideration, I wanted to show why I personally don't care. This re-lume is SO good, that not only is the color a perfect match (like, quite literally perfect) in all angles / lighting, but so is the texture. It would take a very trained eye and a powerful loupe to possibly detect this re-lume without the use of a black light, and as the person wearing it (often) and staring at my wrist, it has turned this into one of my favorite watches in my collection.

    To summarize for the TL;DR crowd - originality is always important to an extent, but if left to professionals, a slight touch up to the original parts (such as these hands) can still leave the piece in all-original condition, but can also take it to another level aesthetically. No rights or wrongs, but I would re-lume and match these hands again 100x out of 100.

    Cheers,
    CF

    BEFORE:
    IMG_0006.JPG

    AFTER:
    IMG_0004.PNG
    IMG_0003.PNG
    IMG_0005.PNG
     
    George.A, jollyjek, Longbow and 18 others like this.
  2. abrod520 Jul 24, 2017

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    I think "relume" is a dirty word still only because of the long history of relumes being done with modern materials, and without regard to aesthetics. Nowadays it isn't very difficult to come by someone who can match lume and even luminosity, and I personally think that a relume job like this is better than a precariously cracking handset etc.
     
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  3. jumpingsecond Jul 24, 2017

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    I think you made the right choice. Even as a collector - if it were me - I wouldn't mark down necessarily for relumed hands (although I prefer the decision to make that choice if possible). I'm generally more concerned about the dial. In this case the outcome is fantastic.
     
  4. Nathan1967 Jul 24, 2017

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    Well the "after" shots confirm that your decision was definitely the correct one! Great watch!
     
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  5. tyrantlizardrex Jul 24, 2017

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    In your shoes I'd have done the same thing - the result is fantastic, and the watch looks so much better!

    Slightly jealous of your gorgeous sub. ;)
     
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  6. bazamu wincer, not a bidder Jul 24, 2017

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    A very good point. I suppose, upon further reflection, this isn't the truest case study for the "to touch up or not to touch up" scenario. A tougher circumstance would be if the lume looks somewhat rotten and you had it changed to a more pleasant shade. In that scenario, I'd opt for the re-do as well, I think.
     
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  7. sgrossma Jul 24, 2017

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    Awesome job on this one - def. prefer this over the cracked hands, etc.
     
  8. Davidt Jul 24, 2017

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    Excellent result. I'd have been very tempted to go the same route.

    For me, original is always king, but a good relume such as can be seen here, or by one of the good guys such as James Hyman, adds value over missing/washed/mouldy/black lume.

    The key point is always in the disclosure and this is where relume becomes a dirty word, when people try to pass off relumed as original.
     
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  9. abrod520 Jul 24, 2017

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    I think I would too, but document it in case I ever were to re-sell the watch. Hard to say what the line is though - I think I'd consider it in the case where cracking lume may pose a threat to the rest of the dial or movement, but original lume should be preserved if possible, even if less than attractive. Otherwise we end up with indistinguishable watches, and the value (both monetary and aesthetic) of pleasing patina is diminished
     
  10. ar.parask13 Jul 24, 2017

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    I like it like that. And I believe it was the right choice. Leaving it like that might have lead to further tritium deterioration which could have found its way into the movement
     
  11. wkimmd Jul 24, 2017

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    I've seen some people now stabilize the lume to prevent further deterioration, which I think is in the same category. What a beautiful job. Well done @ChicagoFrog
     
  12. thatwatchguy Jul 24, 2017

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    After a job done like that it was the right decision. Incredible piece.
     
  13. WatchingPasadena Jul 24, 2017

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    looks great, solid choice!
     
  14. TexOmega Jul 24, 2017

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    Top notch
     
  15. watch3s Jul 24, 2017

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    hmm as someone who has been searching for a tudor sub, its been tough
     
  16. cchen Jul 25, 2017

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    Excellent job and i fully agree with your points. I have two sets of hands that had lume chunks fall out and now with one of the best guys in the UK right now to be patched up. Don't think it's an issue as long as the restorer is truly an expert and does a seamless job. Obviously will be disclosed if the watches are ever for sale.
     
  17. sjg22 Jul 25, 2017

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    The watch looks outstanding and I wouldn't have known the hands were relumed.

    The increasing availability of skilled craftsmen in this area, and availability of tools like 3D printers is going to make it increasingly difficult for anyone to tell if a hand has been relumed or case lasered.

    My thinking is that "relume" and other restoration work will gain greater acceptance due to the continuing decline in availability of unmolested original pieces along with the increasing difficulty collectors will have in being able to tell if some work has been done.
     
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  18. Wing Zero Jul 25, 2017

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    Looks great. LAWW does great work. The biggest question is when it comes time to sell, how many people would disclose the relume? With so much of the price riding on originality.
     
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  19. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jul 25, 2017

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    Conservation [​IMG] Restoration

    Stabilizing lume would not be in the same category as replacing it in my view.

    Cheers, Al
     
  20. bazamu wincer, not a bidder Jul 25, 2017

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    That's why I recommend buying a black light. While many people in this OF community would readily acknowledge a re-lume (or "conservation") of the hands, there are plenty of others trying to make a buck that wouldn't say a thing about the job above. Comes down to having a moral compass, and also a healthy skepticism of anyone that isn't part of the circle of trust.
     
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