Evening guys (and possibly gals)

Again been trawling through eBay to kill some spare time, came across this piece here.

Not really in the market for the price it is at (£600) but I thought it may be interesting to see that whichever person wins will be getting their hands on. This is more for me to see if I can spot the worse from the worse.

First glance it looks OK, however upon closer inspection the Patina, if I can even call it that - the sort of water mark looking fade over the face concerns me that something may have leaked. Secondly, the lume in the hands look almost TOO good, compared to the dials it looks re-lumed. I don't see a problem with the dial, as in font's as such but I haven't spent time looking at other exact models to see a significant problem.

Looking at the photos, it puzzles me, but may just be the angle, the 'T Swiss Made T' isn't visible until the side shot where the watch is on it's side, even on all of the face on photos, it's not visible. This may, of course, be because the face is rounded, which would make sense.

The movement shot looks OK, but then again I am in no place to say whether it's in good shape or not, hence the post! As I've said, I'm using this solely as an experiment of my knowledge to see what other more informed enthusiasts think.

One major problem I can see clearly is the opening / ***GAPING SLIT!*** on the crown side of the watch, almost like a silly sod has tried to prise it open to get the backoff?

Information on the piece

(no date given, will need to check reference number etc)
SWISS AUTOMATIC / CAL.561 / REF No:24425934 / 24 JEWELS / SIGNED: OMEGA WATCH Co SWISS
Acryilic Crystal

Hope we can get a good forum post going with this one, I didn't post in the "Fake Omega" forum, as I don't personally think it is, and I didn't want to post asking the question and clog it up.

Thanks in advance guys,

- Dan

 

Hi Dan

Good call on the gap in the bezel - it shouldn't be there
And yes the 'mouldy' dial looks like moisture ingress and the lume on the hands does look a bit iffy but the fonts look correct

The obscured T SWISS T is most likely down to a generic crystal and retaining ring - as it should be visible

The movement colour is probably due to lighting - you'll see the ends of the bridge are a similar colour as the metal around it
But what about the position of the regulator?

How about you have a go at additional assessment if you're up for it ?
What case type do you think it is?
Does the movement match the case type?
What do you reckon to the case - soft or sharp?
What about the crown?
What's missing around the case edge in the movement shot?

 

Ok well here goes!

Starting off, I haven't a clue what the regulator, nor what it is a should be looking for if I'm totally honest!
The material I think, and have read online is Gold Capped, not as good as gold infill but better than Gold Plated?
Now in terms of the movement matching the case type...after looking on Omega at the reference number of CD 168.004, according to the Omega reference number, I cannot actually find that reference number on the website, only CD.168.0005. However! I found a similar model on Chrono24, with the exact same Cal. and ref number of 168.004.

This worries me haha, as it seems to be a reference number that isn't on the Omega website. Should this concern me? :/

I'm not sure what a soft or sharp case is, please could you explain?

The crown also concerns me, it looks to me like it's far too pushed in, almost level with the case, whereas it should be almost all the way out, so then it can be wound, in fact, looking at it now, this shouldn't be like how it is...at all!

And finally, I can't see what is missing, I'm still getting used to the many movements, so to me it looks all in good condition, however after the problems I have picked out maybe not so much!

That must be the reason why he's dropped the price for me by £250! From £600 to £450!!!

Let me know how I got on! I'd be really grateful!

 

Like I've shown, I'm not too clued up when it comes to movements haha!

I've been having a look at the Ref: 168.004 and it seems to put into some other pieces, such as a Constellation De Luxe, I perceive this as being quite common for a Ref: to be in different pieces? Either that or the case back is not matching the watch!?

As you can tell, I'm trying to figure as much as I can on my own!

 

I'm no expert but there are 'hidden crown' constellations where the crown is not meant to be visible from head on - hence the 'hidden'.

That's not to say the crown is right for this model. Constellations are a mine field.

If the seller told you he dropped the price by £250 from £600 to £450 I would question his honesty...

 

Hmm maybe! I'll have to have a look, it just looked very odd to me, but you maybe right!

I messaged him earlier on, and he instantly sent me an offer of £450 down from £600, and yes I thought when he did send that, he must not trust it himself! Would you reckon if I can get lower it may be worth it? Or is this another pass, I'm thinking it may be a pass!

 

Do you know anything about the serial numbers? I've been looking online and can only find the serial numbers such as: 1969 is - 28'000'000 and so on and so on, however the only numbers I can find on the case is CD 168.004?

Makes no sense to me! :?

 

Currently, I'm thinking this piece may be a pass, too many concerns for my liking currently, and the way the seller instantly dropped the price by £250 as soon as I asked worries me. I have rarely seen an "good" condition connie go for less than £600ish, I could be wrong of course, and please do correct me if I am wrong!

 

The price comment was just me being an arse - the discount he offered you was £150, not £250.

I'd help you more on the serials if I knew more, but I don't. There is a constellation blog somewhere on the internet (run by a guy called Desmond, or Derek...I think). That's the bible for these watches so you'll get more information there.

 

Correct, still a huge discount for someone who was only asking! Usually the price is dropped 10% - 15% not 25%! :O

 

OK, another update. I've sacked that shady Connie, and I'm beginning to get my head around the serial numbers and the reference numbers which is good

http://chronomaddox.com/omega_serial_numbers.html
and
https://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/vintage/

are what I am using to match up the Serial number (long thousand number found on the actual movement) and the reference number which from what I've seen with the vintage's is marked on the back of the case. I'm still struggling to see what the letters in front me, for example, I found one with the Ref 511.0327 on the watch yet on the Omega Ref checker the letters "ST" are placed in front any ideas what those letters mean?

A few more examples are such as: BA, MD - all of these letters are placed in front of the Ref. number.

Think I'm getting my head around the finding out whether the movement matches up with the case type/dial...PROGRESS!!!

 

Look at you! Growing up right before our eyes.

 

Haha much prefer to work some things out myself, and the come back to make sure I'm right rather than getting everyone to do it for me! Would you be able to tell me what the letters before the Ref. Number is? Still looking and can't figure it out! I'm guessing something to do with the model? For example whether it has Day date/date etc?

 

I'm not ruining it for you but, yes, it has to do with the case, not the movement (as you refer to in your last sentence).

 

Ah right, so we've got a little game going on here? I like it I'll get back to you, I've a feeling, similar to Longines the letters may correspond to the dial? I'll get back to you

 

You found Chuck Maddox. He has the key.

 

There we go, it's been found. The "key" so it stands for the type of case, for example "ST" = Stainless Steel, BA = Yelloe gold. Kind of weird that that some of them for example Yelloe Gold IS NOT "YG" but at least I've got the key to understanding it now game over....sort of...stil got around 100+ years to learn hahah

 

Good work Dan

Yes indeed it is a 168.004 ' hidden crown' Connie
There is a later 168.010 version too both should have the recessed crowns
Often replaced and you can't get the original style anymore
Difficult to tell them apart - the .010 is wider between the lugs but the .004 is more likely to have the 561 whereas the .010 more likely to have a 564 movement
I have a particular fondness for these watches

It is gold cap - a thick gold covering at around 200 microns while gold plate is only around 20 microns
The case is a little soft i.e. The facets of the lugs have lost some of their definition
The regulator is that little grey metal device in the picture
You'll see the pointer pushed over to one side -used to advance/retard the running of the watch - in a well serviced watch this should be more central (usually a sign the watch needs servicing)
The case is missing its seal around the edge of the case - this could be the reason for the moisture ingress

The serial at 244xxx dates the watch around 66/67
Quite late but ok


Hope that helps and glad you enjoyed the game!

My trio of .010s for reference

 

Ahhh I see right OK. That makes sense with the seal as it does look like some kind of condensation or water damage.

Still not 100% in the regulator, I've an idea but can't be positive I'm right hah!

Yes I figured th date out, with 24,000,000 for example kind of number, makes it 1967 yep

Not going to go for it I don't think, what do you think? I think the service will set it back and make it a bad purchase