Hi,
I have only one Omega, and it is a modern Speedmaster. However, I have been quietly looking at 2998's on and off for a few years. I have not handled to many, but have done a decent amount of learning on-line and with books.....and of course this website. Someone offered me a 2998-2 today, and I am interested but wanted to get opinions from the forum members.
My observations: The case looks original, polished but retaining some of the original bevels. Not in great shape, but appears original to me. The bezel/insert looks like an original DON Base 1000 to me and appears to have similar wear as the case (MWO A5 Style 1). Dial appears to be original (MWO Type A4) to me with lume in place, but not so even?. Hands are obviously later replacements. The movement is a 321, and looks like the MWO Type A1....However the Movement No. is 17301XXX. Using the MWO criteria....this movement would be in a 2998-1. Crown is MWO Type A1. Caseback is MWO Type A3 and stamped 2998-2.
Questions:
1) Should I be concerned about the Movement No. in regards to the watch being a 2998-2?
2) What is your opinion of the lume?
3) What is your opinion of the case?
4) How hard is it to source original correct hands?
5) How hard is it to source an original correct bracelet?
6) I understand the price is a factor, but with a fair price, is this a watch to go after.....or stay away from?
Thank you very much in advance for your help.

 

Advice number 1 is buy the seller, especially on a watch like this. There are so many of these that are put together from numerous different sources so you need to really trust the seller here. The lume on the dial looks like it may have been redone to me. I can't comment on the price of period correct hands but I would imagine they are very tough to find.

 

Its hard to say the movement is wrong, being so close to those seen in a -2 and fitting for a 2998-1. BUT it is an outlier and therefore puts me on alert.

Its clearly had a lot of work.

Those hands indicate a restoration of sorts, and who knows perhaps the case backs were swapped. There was a time when watch makers did not care.

Is the dial damaged at the 7 oclock area? its not serious, and I see the subdial damage.

The subdial indices are correctly short, so that precludes a distressed service dial - it think! but something about the dial niggles in my bones.

A few years ago I would have ignored that tingle and bought the watch, but now the prices are so high I want to be sure.

That said, if price reflects these worries, then its a buy, because there is sod all around at the moment, and less than sod all BASE1000 bezels.

 

You need more shots of the dial, the lower half to make sure the SWISS MADE is lined up correctly.
I think a Geiger counter might answer the relume question.
As SF said 17301 is close to a 2998-2 but not quite. It is also a Seamaster movement number series as well.
The hour and minute hand come up from time to time. Luckily the 2 is fine with the easier to source straight lume hour hand.

 

Thank you very much for the replies.
SF ~ I will be going back tomorrow for another look at the dial. Is your concern from condition or authenticity? And sorry if I am asking an obvious question.....but what is "sod"?
Gemini4 ~ I am adding some more photos here. What am I looking for in regards to the SWISS MADE being lined up? I will be bringing my Geiger counter with me tomorrow to check out the lume. Your Seamaster comment definitely concerns me.

 

Sorry about posting the last three pictures twice.

 

The dial appears to be a 2998-1, 2 dial. Regarding the movment number, it is a tough call. Do you know the rest of the digits? How close to 17302 is it? As @sky21 mentioned, who is the seller? Is it a member? A serious collector or someone who has this one watch for sale.

I purchased a 2998-2 from a member of such high regard that if he was the seller, I was buying, no questions asked. I actually purchased 2 watches from that seller.

Here is my 2998-1 and 2998-2. Same dial and you can compare the lume. BTW, both of mine have a slightly different chrono hand with a smaller disc. Mine are 2915-3 chrono hands and the OP is more correct.

Good luck

 

If you can spare a few days, it may be possible to contact the omega museum and have them confirm whether the movement was for a seamaster or speedmaster. In my experience, they will sometimes confirm via email or phone even for cases where they won't issue an extract. This is not without faults as email can easily be faked and so such evidence should be taken in that light, but may be a little peace of mind on that note.

There certainly aren't a lot of these around. Personally, I would buy if the price was digestible.

As stand in while you hunt for hands, you should be able to get hands from the FOIS. They will look better than the ones on there now.

 

Good to know !

 

The movement number is fairly close to 17302……173019XX.
I had not met the seller before today, and I do not know if he is a member. I will find out tomorrow.
Thanks for posting the pictures of your beauties gemini4.
oddboy ~ On the museum website, I found the reception number: +41 32 343 91 31. Do you recall if that is the number you used? I would really appreciate any phone number, email address or contact information you could share.
Thanks again!

 

They've been popping up, in varying condition, with and without end links (which are costly in themselves).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191844866038?item=191844866038&rmvSB=truePurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

I do keep my eye on them, but I honestly wouldn't buy one to wear and thus I don't really care that much.

 

Spent some time today inspecting it further.
First, I checked it with a Geiger counter. It only measured 2.312 mH/hr. I was glad to see it pick up some radiation, but it was much lower than other watches that I have measured (32.02 was the highest I have seen). I have not checked other Speedmasters.......does anyone here have any data points that could help me compare?
Upon inspection with a 10x loupe, I could see the lume plots had deteriorated and fallen off at some points. Also the dial damage between the 7 and the 9, and the second hand subdial.
Finally, I have emailed the Omega Archive department asking if they could help with any information on the movement number as oddboy suggested. Since the seller is not actively marketing the piece, I am hoping I can get some information from them before I lose my chance to buy.

Overall, I really like the watch. However, I am afraid I might be convincing myself to purchase with just the desire to own a 2998. I would prefer to get one that was in better condition, but I fear that option might not present itself to me. In the current market, and if the movement info comes back as correct, I was thinking this piece is worth somewhere between $16k and $18k USD for an end user such as myself. The seller is asking $22k.

If I may ask, what price do you guys think is worth paying for this piece?

Thanks again for all the responses and help.

 

My early 2998s hit 2500 cpm, counts per minute. The GC is clicking constantly at approx 40 per second. Tritium reads at a much lower 40 - 60 CPM. If there was only "some" radiation I believe the lume was redone with tritium. The dial issues, the hands issue, the movement number issue all need to be factored into a fair price.

 

imho, the dial issue is probably the most significant. the damage isn't severe, but it does detract from the value to a degree as the dial is the heart of the watch, and these dials are very, very rare. that said, I'd hazard a guess that it looks better on the wrist than in macro pics. as a proxy, a 2915 dial in poor condition recently sold on ebay for $7200 USD, so trying to find a better dial would be very difficult.

I would definitely wait to see if Omega has anything to say. the movement number is so close.

I think if you can get it under $20K, you're doing well. it appears to me to be better than Running ($14K) and not quite Good ($26K).

 

If you have $25 - $30k to spend on a Speedmaster then I would wait for a perfect example to come up and pay the extra. If however that is unrealistic for you then you have to accept a few 'problems.' IMHO this one has a nice dial, a nice bezel, nice case and hopefully Omega will confirm the movement number for you. The hands are not impossible to find and a bracelet is relatively easy to get so I would go for it at under $20k.
However I thought Omga had no info on case refs for the early 2998's.

 

That eBay dial was actually a 2998-1/2 dial just like this one, only not nearly as nice, btw.

 

Thanks again for all the replies.
gemini4 ~ When I stated that the reading on the GC was low, I meant in comparison to a reading I got on other watches previously. The 2.312 mR/Hr I read on this example converts to about 7,800 CPM. So it seems this would indicate the lume is radium.
oddboy ~ I agree the dial damage is the biggest issue, but I am more content now that I believe the lume is probably correct even if it is deteriorating. Thanks for your opinion on value.
Ash ~ I am lucky enough to be able to afford a nicer example. However I have not been lucky enough to be find one and act fast enough. I would love to have a perfect one offered.......anyone.......anyone? Anyway I am hoping to hear from Omega soon. Thanks for your opinion on value.
Will let you guys know more soon.

 

Sooooo?

 

I have not received a response from the email I sent to the Archive Dept. yet. I ordered an Extract through a Boutique today. The Seller has promised to hold the watch for me until extract comes back. The wait begins…………..