I'm toying with the idea of buying this vintage snorkel. Seller says it runs for a while, then stops, so it needs a service. What should I look out for?

Caseback inside just says "714" "Swiss"









Thanks!

 

I serviced one of these for a customer a few months ago. His had a slightly different dial with the "Snorkel" moved to the lower area which had "Automatic", then "Snorkel" and then "666 feet". The bezel, dial and hands are all comparable to yours except for the changed writing locations and a red cross hair. Bracelet is different but similar.

The inner caseback was marked as 714-1 so slightly newer, I would think. It had M9 on the rotor above the "Swiss" and that translated as 1969. I can't see what it says on your watch but there are online sources to translate the meaning.

The outer case back should have writing and also a serial number - the one I had was in the 466000 range.

The 11BLACD movement is pretty rugged and parts availability would be similar to a 1950s Omega bumper so, virtually everything is available but not easy to find. Unfortunately, they have a sealed barrel but these have probably all been opened by now and it should be possible to replace the mainspring. I got it to under 13 seconds variation over six positions at full wind so, the original design is there to set them up very well. Amplitude was very good as well, in fact a bit high initially and I had to tame it. If the movement is in good condition, then it should run very well after service.

I thought it was a very nice watch and the one I had was close to NOS so looked great. Good size and the dial markers are unusual and interesting. The one you've seen has some battle scars.

Cheers, Chris

 

Well, someone bought this one while I was considering it. I appreciate the info, the hunt continues.

One question: I note that this watch had a 17-jewel movement, but I also see the 11 BLACD in a 23-jewel variant. What effect should that have on how I assess watches?

 

17 is generally US market as there was tariffs on watches over 17 jewels. I would assume the the 23 jewels carries a slight premium just as people perceive more is better.

That being said the number of extra jewels are not necessarily needed and are mostly for marketing as the perception was more jewels is better. Jewels are basically used as bushings inside of watches.

In the example of the Seiko 32 jewel movements the extra jewels are in the date wheel and do basically nothing.

The Omega 861 is a Chrono and was “only” 17 jewels until the late 80’s then switches to 18 and the movement remained marked 17 jewels for a few years while it had 18. This is a somewhat complex Chrono movement but manual wind while this Bulova has an automatic system which does require some jewels.

 

The jewels in the train of the watch (the timekeeping part) for this calibre are:

Barrel arbor *0
2nd wheel*0
3rd wheel *2 (upper and lower pivots)
4th wheel *2 (upper and lower pivots)
Escape wheel *2 (upper and lower pivots)
Pallet fork *4 (upper and lower pivots and the two pallet jewels that interact with the escape wheel)
Balance wheel *5 (upper and lower pivots which each have a through jewel and a cap jewel plus the ruby impulse pin that interacts with the pallet fork)

For me, that'd a standard 15 jewel movement and suits a manual wind very well. The slower moving parts, barrel and 2nd wheel are bushed and not jeweled as they turn slowly but have high forces. However, you can start adding jewels in some places here to increase your jewel count - the notable one is the second wheel pivots which would bring you to 17 but not for the 11BLACD.

This watch has an auto system and there are two extra jewels for the wheels there, making 17. They are in the visible side of the auto mechanism but at a glance, that is where I'd put them from a design point of view as well. The lateral forces on the pivots are not the same top to bottom for any wheel due to the way they transfer forces and torque so sometimes a jewel in the upper and bush in the lower (for example) has a reason.

There are also 6 bushes in the auto system here so it will be these 6 that are changed to jewels to give a 23 jewel movement. EDIT - I meant to say that it is probably these six but, it could be that two are in the second wheel.

As @Foo2rama says there is a degree of marketing in this and here, I wouldn't take it into account when looking at watches. Get the best condition watch you can.

Cheers, Chris

 

Thanks I knew a more experienced person would make it more clear.

 

Thanks for all the info. I was aware of the general value proposition (or lack thereof) of jewels, but I didn't know why there were multiple versions of this movement or if there were any other reason to prefer one or the other.

As always, I appreciate all the sharing of expertise here.

 

And just going back to the 861 that Foo mentioned, it's a standard 15 jewel basic movement for me with the extra 2 (or 3) jewels being in the chrono part. The 2 in green are jewels, making 17, but the one in red would be a bush in early 861s. This is an 1861 (partly assembled) so has the jewel in the coupling yoke wheel to make 18.

Cheers, Chris

 

Speaking of jewels, I had a "watchmaker" tell me he wouldn't service any watch below 25 jewels since anything less is old and unreliable.

 

I'm trying to have restored an 11BLACD just right now and found a lot of interesting tips in this thread, thanks for sharing guys!

 

ooh. that devil just snatched it!

 

Here is a few the forum own

https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-bulova-666-the-devil-diver.65919/

 

Still kick myself for selling this to @Patg

 

Try to buy the best condition you can. These are very collectible and IMO a bit of a premium won’t hurt you. These are great watches.

 

Thanks for reviving this thread. I eventually found an orange-dialed Oceanographer "V". Best of luck to all in the hunt.

 

beauty. congrats.