Opinions needed on 2914 Railmaster PAF please!

[shahuk]

Hi All -

Long time watch collector/enthusiast here, but no experience whatsoever with Omega. I came across this watch and my interest originates solely in a personal connection to the PAF. However, it comes with a 'healthy' (for me!) price tag and as such I'd like to get opinions on the watch - originality (lume, crown, case etc) and overall whether this would be considered a high-grade watch or just average. Dealer is well-known and reputable

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[fizz]

European Watch Company are reputable yes, but I'd be very cautious of their descriptions for their vintage watches. I've routinely noticed that it's incorrect in terms of facts (their reps just don't know these watches very well, evident especially when you speak with them).

Specifically addressing this 2914, the dial is both a replacement and incorrect. A proper PAF 2914 should have the older Seamaster text (with what is known as "coat hanger S" and "dropping r"). It also always features a radium dial with "recessed wells" where it seem the lume isn't just put on the dial but in deeper chambers (hard to describe, look it up). Nearly all of the 2914-5's for the PAF had mild to extensive radium damage on the dial - which gives it varying shades of tropical, molted, chocolate dial colours (those descriptions tell you how imaginative vintage folk are in describing their fare!) and something this pristine just looks odd and out of place. These should always and exclusively only feature broad arrow hands so I am not sure what those second set of "original hands" that are separately provided are doing here. The crown is also obviously a replacement - that is one part that was commonly replaced. The original usually features the older "skinny" Omega logo and a Naiad marking.

The extract dates the watch to the right month/year but in this case, with the replaced dial, doesn't really mean much. The price, for what you get, makes no sense and I'd say is on the higher side. The early, rarer 2914 PAF's are usually not something that come for sale often and the later 135.004 (issued in 1964) is probably easier (and much cheaper) to find.

Finally, mine says hello!

 

[watchyouwant]

Dial and Hands are from Vietnam. Most probably not a thick Amag dial blanc as well. What happened to the movement numbers outside the case back ?

 

[shahuk]

fizz

European Watch Company are reputable yes, but I'd be very cautious of their descriptions for their vintage watches. I've routinely noticed that it's incorrect in terms of facts (their reps just don't know these watches very well, evident especially when you speak with them).

Specifically addressing this 2914, the dial is both a replacement and incorrect. A proper PAF 2914 should have the older Seamaster text (with what is known as "coat hanger S" and "dropping r"). It also always features a radium dial with "recessed wells" where it seem the lume isn't just put on the dial but in deeper chambers (hard to describe, look it up). Nearly all of the 2914-5's for the PAF had mild to extensive radium damage on the dial - which gives it varying shades of tropical, molted, chocolate dial colours (those descriptions tell you how imaginative vintage folk are in describing their fare!) and something this pristine just looks odd and out of place. These should always and exclusively only feature broad arrow hands so I am not sure what those second set of "original hands" that are separately provided are doing here. The crown is also obviously a replacement - that is one part that was commonly replaced. The original usually features the older "skinny" Omega logo and a Naiad marking.

The extract dates the watch to the right month/year but in this case, with the replaced dial, doesn't really mean much. The price, for what you get, makes no sense and I'd say is on the higher side. The early, rarer 2914 PAF's are usually not something that come for sale often and the later 135.004 (issued in 1964) is probably easier (and much cheaper) to find.

Finally, mine says hello!

Wow thank you for the incredibly helpful information! I'll definitely pass on this watch, but now I've got the bug and your piece is gorgeous, I need to find a 1960 version of this watch )

 

[Franco]

Here is my 135.004, a cousin from the second issue:

 

[shahuk]

Franco

Here is my 135.004, a cousin from the second issue:

SO good!

Can anyone point me towards where to look in terms of finding a good example? I have no idea when it comes to Omega, but I really would like to find one (or more) of these!

 

[Franco]

I think they are difficult but not impossible to find. What I like is that, unlike other militaries, do not have fixed lugs. So they do exist with original bracelets and endlinks .

 

[Gaz6263]

Member @michael e has one for sale on eBay. He trades under *english*auctions*

 

[shahuk]

Gaz6263

Member @michael e has one for sale on eBay. He trades under *english*auctions*

Thx
I saw that watch if its the same one, I believe its FAP (Peruvian) vs PAF (Pakistani)

 

[fizz]

Franco

I think they are difficult but not impossible to find. What I like is that, unlike other militaries, do not have fixed lugs. So they do exist with original bracelets and endlinks .

These early PAF's have rarely, if ever, been found with bracelet. The one exception I've found is the later 135.004, which came with period correct 7912 (correct to the very month of the production date mentioned in the accompanying extract) but this could very well have been cobbled together.

My view is that since these were for actual military use, being on a bracelet wouldn't make sense, as opposed to a strap of some sort. The PAF records are so poor (non-existent actually) that finding the truth is almost impossible. @watchyouwant may have more of a perspective on this since he's researched them extensively.

 

[fizz]

Franco

Here is my 135.004, a cousin from the second issue:

Lovely looking example, but even the 135.004's came with a Seamaster dial, not railmaster.

This is mine.

 

[fizz]

shahuk

Thx
I saw that watch if its the same one, I believe its FAP (Peruvian) vs PAF (Pakistani)

It's FAP and a redial.

 

[fizz]

shahuk

SO good!

Can anyone point me towards where to look in terms of finding a good example? I have no idea when it comes to Omega, but I really would like to find one (or more) of these!

There's a really decent one available on chrono24 at the moment. Comes with a screenshot of the extract (important on military issued watches) since the original was lost, but I guess when (not if) Omega restarts that service, it can be reapplied for.

There's also a couple of established sellers offering, but their prices are exorbitant. This is all for the 135.004.

The 2914 is slightly harder to find (mine took over 7 years!).

 

[Franco]

fizz

Lovely looking example, but even the 135.004's came with a Seamaster dial, not railmaster.

This is mine.

Mine came as is, Railmaster dial and 7912 bracelet. Got it about 2005, with extract and emails to-from mr Diethelm of Omega. On the back however, is Seamaster.

 

[shahuk]

fizz

There's a really decent one available on chrono24 at the moment. Comes with a screenshot of the extract (important on military issued watches) since the original was lost, but I guess when (not if) Omega restarts that service, it can be reapplied for.

There's also a couple of established sellers offering, but their prices are exorbitant. This is all for the 135.004.

The 2914 is slightly harder to find (mine took over 7 years!).

Looks like that vendor has two available, one with the actual extract and a refinished dial (more expensive) and the one with the photo of the extract, for which the description doesn't mention what has been done to the watch

 

[watchyouwant]

fizz

These early PAF's have rarely, if ever, been found with bracelet. The one exception I've found is the later 135.004, which came with period correct 7912 (correct to the very month of the production date mentioned in the accompanying extract) but this could very well have been cobbled together.

My view is that since these were for actual military use, being on a bracelet wouldn't make sense, as opposed to a strap of some sort. The PAF records are so poor (non-existent actually) that finding the truth is almost impossible. @watchyouwant may have more of a perspective on this since he's researched them extensively.

As for as I know , they were delivered as Head only. No Band.
Pakistan received plenty of watches , incl. WW 2 Panerai's , from the UK. I'd expect that kind of cloth strap used in the early deliveries.

 

[michael e]

fizz

It's FAP and a redial.

Yes FAP with original but refinished dial and an original but later Railmaster dial