Hey everyone. Happy speedy Tuesday. I have a chance to get this transitional Speedmaster for about $4500-$5000USD. I like the dial and the crown. Case looks a bit polished to me on the front bottom lugs. Dial is so even that it might be retouched or relumed? Hoping the experts will help me out with any observations my lust may be causing me to miss. Thanks!

 

Sorry for the duplicate posts. I got a 'failure to complete' message so I obviously tried a few more times.

 

Coffee lume club here we come... Looks too fresh for natural aging to that colour and hands look very new.

Don't know enough for you to take this as anything but my thoughts.

Good luck

 

I agree with Standy. It looks to good to be true... I wish that markers and hands took the same color everywhere but it mostly never happen. There should be some different tone of coffee color. To me, Here it's to uniform... It looks as made by a machine.
Apart this everything seems right.
861 copper caliber, right case and back with asymmetrical twisted lugs, right spaced T dial with applied omega logo, right hands with flat second, right 24 dents crown, right pushers.
The band seems to be a 1479/812 according to the links. And I don't see for the glass..

Hope this helps.

Best

Chris

 

And of course correct bezel!!

 

Hands and sub hands look very white for a 45 year old watch
Even if dials/hands might be relumed and hands might be repainted, I think it is a quite nice looking watch.

 

Agree with the others, lume and hands color is so consistent its had to have been touched up. Your comments about polish are correct, not quite sharp bevel on the side and that lower right lug looks to have been polished up more than the others.

It is a nice looking piece and if you are looking for things to help in negotiations then all of what has been mentioned would be good.

The price is high IMO and if you consult Speedmaster101.com you'll see that 4.5-5k is for a good condition watch with recent service. Do you best to haggle and hopefully you come out aces. Good luck.

 

Same opinion: hands and indexes are relumed. Lume of hands is aging different comparing to the lume ofe the dial...

 

Although attractively done, I have to think this is a relume for how crisp and uniform it is. That price might be justifiable if it had a 1039 bracelet, but even then I think it's a bit high given the polishing, relume, and bracelet, But if the work doesn't bother you, and you're seeking an attractive transitional, which this is, maybe those factors give some room for negotiation.

 

IMO, patina for the late 60's pre-moon dials tend to be lighter than that shade. Not saying it couldn't be the darker, toffee color, but many are lighter and more yellowish. Also, as everyone else has pointed out, it's extremely uniform which is very rarely the case. For $5,000, I'd pass.

 

its a 1116/575 which is correct for a 145.022-68

above the 1479/812 and under the 1116/575

 

I have spent too long looking at this watch in the OP.

It has all the attributes of a Transitional.

Why don't I like it? Why am I not filled with WatchLust and sending a PM? This is after all the most desirable production 861 Speedmaster!

Because something smells off. How it comes through the screen I don't know.

Now I hesitated before posting, because perhaps the watch is now bought - and i don't want to upset anyone needlessly - but I suppose its better to tell it like I see it. It must be said that while I think I know a few things, its all from observation and just because I have not seen something like this before, does not mean it cannot be original.

The thing is I have no concrete reason to dislike this, other than circumstantial evidence that when gathered together suggests, and only suggests, that this is a dealer prepared watch.

First, most obvious, is the dial and handset. I love a set of toffee coloured lume but this looks as natural as an Essex girl in January. Then the perfectly matching lume on the handset seems just too good to be true and a huge alarm bell.

The dial body colour shows some patchiness, as though it has been cleaned or restored - possibly. The thing is now we are now on alert because of that lume so I look at every little thing in detail.

The subdials have some marks, sweep marks from incorrectly fitted hands?

The movement screws look a little overworked, the ones holding the movement to the ring. Normally that would not be a thing, but its weight to my dislike of the watch.

The photos of the case are indistinct and hard to judge, but from what I see the case looks lightly polished and refinished - but not by an expert. Look at the lugs, which lack definition, and the caseback. Someone has brushed the sides, not a bad thing, but the rest needs to be right (ie sharp) before you do that.

I am not a bracelet expert, but I have not seen this combination before - makes me think it was shoved on by the seller - but as I said bracelets are not my area and I accept that others may know more. Its just given the other things wrong the bracelet being unusual is another little flag.

All my instincts tell me this is a restored, possibly dealer prepared, watch that has lost all of the charm I value in a vintage piece.

 

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful and thorough responses. Really helps me make a decision.

 

I don't understand why anyone, dealer included, would relume this watch. These dials, spaced T, (105.012-66, 145.012, 145.022-68, tend to hold their lume very well. Dial is in very nice original condition, original crown, correct bracelet, no service marks under caseback, movement number is fine. Bezel very good. I don't think anyone would relume it. Makes no sense. The lume looks fine, color is too orange??? Is that unheard of? Could be the photo. I'm not certain its relumed.

 

Is that a little creep at the hour register?

 

I don't think it's unheard of, but I agree with those who think it looks too "good" to be original. I have seen a pile of dials with lume that is this dark and orange, but they all are no where near as neat and fully cover the white markers on the dial as this one does.

Cheers, Al

 

My feeling is that when dealing with a dwindling supply of vintage watches, that almost by definition, have an increased risk of 'tarting' up at some point in their lifetime (if not already), we can collectively get a bit too particular about obsessing about every particular attribute re, originality, while losing sight of the fact that the watch discussed here, would look very nice on the wrist, touched up lume or not. I agree that the perfect match of the hand colour does look a bit unusual and the lume on the dial plots looks very square. If this was re-lumed, then regardless, someone did a good job at it. The colour is too orange - who knows. Before someone reminds me.............yes, I know this is all down to personal taste.

 

In the fourth photo the lume looks cracked on the second hand. I'm afraid to speak as the minute and hour hands because the uneven look may be a limitation of the resolution of the photo.

As much as I like old watches to look old, @mozambique is spot on that as time passes more and more will be done to an older watch.

To be honest if I had a mechanically sound speedy that I felt I was going to hold on to for 15-20 years and it hadn't lived a gentle existence before coming to my house, I'd be seriously tempted to "tart it up" a bit because I'm not going to own a watch that I can't wear regularly in the sweatshop labor of a desk job that requires no physical exertion beyond tapping on a keyboard. I still want to clearly see the time since that is the primary reason these watches exist.