Omega Speedmaster MARK III circa 1972

Zdzislaw · Nov 22, 2020

Hello OF,

I am helping my friend to find his dream watch, and as always I seek some wisdom first.

Omega Speedmaster MARK III cal. 1040 circa from 1972

Good...
1. Absolutely beautiful dial in good original condition.

2. Clean and serviced movement cal. 1040.

3. Original, sharp, unpolished unmolested case with minor signs of wear, apart of bottom of the case and 1st photo minor chip on the bottom left.

... Bad ...
1. Some lume displacements at 12 o’clock(right above 60 marker right dot) and 1 o’clock(minor wear sign).

2. Not original bracelet, although looks nice.

3. Replacement mineral crystal.

4. 1040 movement not as reliable as 5xx/7xx and from what I have heared requiring more rigid service.
... and the ugly.
1. As always price 2150 USD.

Taking all the above under consideration.
Am I missing something important?
Is it worth taking a risk with this piece, and is it worth its price?
How likely will the cal. 1040 cause problems? Is it safe to assume that if it is serviced regularly(once per 3 years), it should not?
What original Omega bracelet you would recommend?

Thank you in advance for your feedback!

Best!

X350 XJR · Nov 22, 2020

The case appears to have been refinished, should be a sunburst not brushed like this one.

amcclell · Nov 22, 2020

Your statement about the 1040 is not really a fair comparison. While the 6xx and 7xx are terrific movements, an automatic chronograph is a completely different animal from a simple, 3 hand movement. Maintenance costs will be higher on any chronograph movement, so if your friend is concerned about this, they are advised to avoid chronographs altogether.

If their dream watch is a chronograph, there are lots of choices and decisions to make. The 1040, which is based on the Lemania 1340, was the first autowind chronograph offered by Omega. It has a good reputation and also has some unique features. I expect that you have been to the site but in case not, I have pasted a url below.

https://www.calibre1040.com/calibre-1040-collectors-guide-movements/

I agree with the comments on the case.

The lobster bracelet was the iconic one that was paired with this version of Speedmaster but I think the mesh looks nice. These are super chunky watches, so your friend would be advised to try one on for size first.

amcclell · Nov 22, 2020

Sorry folks, the lobster was the Speedsonic and the Mark III had the more traditional Speedmaster style, plain-link bracelet.

Twocats · Nov 22, 2020

Why does the case back say Seamaster and not Speedmaster ?

amcclell · Nov 22, 2020

I wonder if it is a 178.002 Seamaster with a Speedy dial and bezel swapped out - or it just may be a complete Franken.

Vercingetorix · Nov 22, 2020

Twocats
Why does the case back say Seamaster and not Speedmaster ?

http://chronomaddox.com/SeM_on_SpM.html

amcclell · Nov 22, 2020

Vercingetorix
http://chronomaddox.com/SeM_on_SpM.html

Thanks for steering us to Chuck Maddox's pages - they are a wealth of information.

Twocats · Nov 22, 2020

Vercingetorix
http://chronomaddox.com/SeM_on_SpM.html

Thanks for the link, it make sense too and another page bookmarked for reference 👍👍

Andy K · Nov 22, 2020

That case has been poorly refinished.

The 1040 movement is high quality and reliable when serviced, but it is a nearly 50 year old chronograph so servicing it can get pretty expensive.

That dial, movement and case are completely correct for each other, it is not a Franken.

The Mark III caseback should have a Seamaster logo.

Kokito · Nov 22, 2020

Case was molested... a lot, If anyone want a professional refinish I recommend Watches SPA or Watches Secondlife both are from Poland, have very good prices, tools and experience.

Taddyangle · Nov 22, 2020

I had my mark iii serviced by same watchmaker that does my regular Speedmaster watches and price was about 15% more for the mark iii.

Zdzislaw · Nov 23, 2020

Thank you very much for your feedback.

Summing up case was refinished, while it is brushed should sunburst and could use some professional refinish to restore. That being said price is still fair, while the other components are in the fair/original condition. Thing to remember is that service can be expensive for Cal. 1040.

Is that correct? 😉

X350 XJR · Nov 23, 2020

https://omegaforums.net/threads/red...-mark-iii-cal-1040-2-500.122026/#post-1640466

Kokito · Nov 23, 2020

It'll be very hard to correct this case, the layers of steel has already been removed. At first it'll need surfacing then correcting the edges and then final finish using sunburst and polish. I recommend just wait for better one.

Vercingetorix · Nov 23, 2020

It is easy to tell how bad this case is by comparing it to the one for sale above. Just look at how far the crystal protrudes. I have often pointed this out to deaf ears when it comes to certain individual who is used here to refinish MKII cases.

This case from the OP.

This is from the one for sale as X350 shows.

Zdzislaw · Nov 23, 2020

X350 XJR
The case appears to have been refinished, should be a sunburst not brushed like this one.

I have found reference 176.002 with blue dial and similar case and similar finish being advertised as "The case shows some surface scratches and was possibly lightly polished." Sold for 2700 USD. https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/1970s-omega-speedmaster-mark-iii-reference-176-3

Another example of similar finish on eBay being sold as OMEGA SPEEDMASTER MARK III CHRONOGRAPH CASE Reference No. 176.002 BLACK" and followed by this item description "Scarce Factory New original genuine Omega unused Mark III Blue Bezel Chronograph Case. OMEGA SPEEDMASTER MARK III CHRONOGRAPH CASE Reference No. 176.002. Includes the glass, bezel insert, Rubber gasket, and Chronograph buttons."

And another example of item being advertised as
"SPEEDMASTER MARK III CHRONOGRAPH CASE BLACK BEZEL Reference No. 176.002. Includes the glass, bezel insert, Rubber gasket, and Chronograph buttons." https://www.swisslogobuckles.com/pr...mark-iii-chronograph-case-black-bezel-176-002

I am not an expert, but they look like genuine, original factory cases for 176.002. Granted that in the actual watch pictures included in the ads the finish is sunburst. Can you please help me understand? Thank you for your feedback in advance! 😉

Andy K · Nov 24, 2020

Zdzislaw
Can you please help me understand? Thank you for your feedback in advance! 😉

Full disclosure, the watch in the listing posted by @X350 XJR and photo posted by @Vercingetorix is mine, so I understand if anyone thinks I'm being overly biased. But I've looked at LOTS of Mark IIIs over the years and here are my honest thoughts:

So many Mark IIIs are really poorly redone. There's just so much surface to attract dings, dents and scratches....I think well-meaning watchmakers over the decades have tried to buff them out and that has resulted in a market where now at least 90% of the watches have seen the polishing wheel to some degree.

Mark IIIs, like the "Big Blue" Seamaster diver 176.004, came in both horizontal and radial/sunburst finishes. The consensus (or at least majority opinion) from the few of us that have tried to analyze this is that the radial finish was both more common and earlier. But, I wonder now if perhaps the horizontal was more common on the Mark III than originally thought, mainly because several of the few unpolished examples I've seen have had the horizontal brushing, including two that I've owned. For whatever reason, it seems that when these are refinished, they're refinished with a sunburst finish, regardless of what they originally looked like.

I believe the Hodinkee example you show to be refinished. The top-down image shows that the radial lines are not straight, and the angled 3:00 side view looks a little "wavy" to me. The edges around the top near the crystal are a little soft from polishing. This is a better than average refinish job though.

No link to the eBay example....unless it's the same item as the other case, since that pic with the guy's thumb is on the swisslogobuckles site listing as well. First of all that listing is weird - he's selling a radial/sunburst case and shows borrowed/stolen image of a nice complete watch that has the horizontal finish. I get that he's showing an example of the watch the case goes to but it's a different finish. I'm skeptical as to the originality of the case finishing here too. Again, the 3:00 side looks wavy - this happens when you are working on the case with the crown/pushers still attached. It could just be reflections though. My other concern is that often the refinished sunburst/radial finish is way more "textured" looking than the originals. That could be the case here.

Again, just my opinion.

Zdzislaw · Nov 24, 2020

Andy K
Full disclosure, the watch in the listing posted by @X350 XJR and photo posted by @Vercingetorix is mine, so I understand if anyone thinks I'm being overly biased. But I've looked at LOTS of Mark IIIs over the years and here are my honest thoughts:

So many Mark IIIs are really poorly redone. There's just so much surface to attract dings, dents and scratches....I think well-meaning watchmakers over the decades have tried to buff them out and that has resulted in a market where now at least 90% of the watches have seen the polishing wheel to some degree.

Mark IIIs, like the "Big Blue" Seamaster diver 176.004, came in both horizontal and radial/sunburst finishes. The consensus (or at least majority opinion) from the few of us that have tried to analyze this is that the radial finish was both more common and earlier. But, I wonder now if perhaps the horizontal was more common on the Mark III than originally thought, mainly because several of the few unpolished examples I've seen have had the horizontal brushing, including two that I've owned. For whatever reason, it seems that when these are refinished, they're refinished with a sunburst finish, regardless of what they originally looked like.

I believe the Hodinkee example you show to be refinished. The top-down image shows that the radial lines are not straight, and the angled 3:00 side view looks a little "wavy" to me. The edges around the top near the crystal are a little soft from polishing. This is a better than average refinish job though.

No link to the eBay example....unless it's the same item as the other case, since that pic with the guy's thumb is on the swisslogobuckles site listing as well. First of all that listing is weird - he's selling a radial/sunburst case and shows borrowed/stolen image of a nice complete watch that has the horizontal finish. I get that he's showing an example of the watch the case goes to but it's a different finish. I'm skeptical as to the originality of the case finishing here too. Again, the 3:00 side looks wavy - this happens when you are working on the case with the crown/pushers still attached. It could just be reflections though. My other concern is that often the refinished sunburst/radial finish is way more "textured" looking than the originals. That could be the case here.

Again, just my opinion.

Thank you very much for taking your time to share your knowledge - much appreciated. I have seen your listing, when researching this specific reference and it is both honest and fairly priced to my limited knowledge. One of the case bay listings available here: https://m.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-MARK-I...1&pageci=496a4e8f-73bb-448a-b54d-cb7f226f2429 this one comes with the two bezel inserts variations for black and blue. I know that I still need to learn a lot from the wiser and more experienced folks like you and this is very reason, why I have joined OF. That being said in regards to Omega I own 2 Connies and recently acquired Seamaster. I went into Mark III rabbit hole, because my friend asked me for the advice and for me it is incarnation of the gasoline head "Speedmaster".
I understand your point with the exposure surface making it really hard not to damage case occasionally and majority of 176.002 being refinished at some point, if actually worn. My logic is following, the case of the original patient was polished at some point as most, but not overpolished and it is still genuine case, while there are too many factory cases with similar refinish for them not to be used with the actual movements at some point in time.

Taddyangle · Nov 24, 2020

Here is mine. I believe the case is in touched, but not certain.

Omega Speedmaster MARK III circa 1972

Zdzislaw

X350 XJR

amcclell

amcclell

Twocats

amcclell

Vercingetorix

amcclell

Twocats

Andy K

Kokito

Taddyangle

Zdzislaw

X350 XJR

Kokito

Vercingetorix

Zdzislaw

Andy K

Zdzislaw

Taddyangle

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