Omega Speedmaster 105.003-65 on an auction (A dirty one!)

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10950 $ / 9360 € !!


That is what somebody paid (including the premium) for an EW on an auction…..
And lots and lots of bids…This one had multiple biding platforms, so lots of attention!

The winner was an online buyer!

I am not sure how this happened…😅


But first, some more info and an assessment (not my best…):

It had B & P, but the papers did not have any serial nr or ref nr….and stamped 17/7 1978.
It could have been from another watch…?
Bracelet - 1035 with nr 6 endlinks, a bit messed up, and not in a fine condition.

The most obvious thing is the dirt around the bezel….
The auction house described it as black residue!

And the rest of the dirt….Jikes!


On to the dial:
It has a nice brownish tone (looking through the very scratched crystal),
but the indices have discoloration, and some some of them has lost some lume.
There is a lot of lume floating around on the dial, and there are some spots that should not be on the dial…
The hour, minute and chrono hands are in a really bad shape…

The case looks very promising, the edges/bevels are nice and possibly untouched!
A major scratch on the backside of one lugg.
The condition of the caseback is the same, but sadly a couple of opening marks.

Movement looks ok, a few screwheads that are abused, the gasket looks cleaner than the rest of the watch.
Serial nr places the watch in the correct range for a 65.
Pushers and crown could be original to the watch.

My thoughts about this watch:

A dirty watch, maybe not taken care of...?
The dial and hands would need a relume,
but the spots that are on the dial might not disappear,
and could I live with the possibility of this…?

Even if the gunk/residue would be cleaned away from the bezel, the bezel itself is not so attractive.
It has dents, scratches and some chips/paint missing.
The case, caseback, pushers and crown are the parts that are promising and very valuable here.
And a nice movement after the service.....
It needs a new crystal.

And what would the value be….for me!?
TBH, I was not in the game for a huge project watch, so no Masterplan on this one.

But the grading:
Dial - with the spots/blemishes, a Fair (the tone looks pleasing)
The indices and hands needs a relume, and how do we grade this??
The bezel would be a Fair minus, if the gunk does not hide any major problems.
The case and case back, together with the pushers and crown - these are the parts that moves the watch towards Good/Good plus!
EW´s are often seen with a polished case, and those that are unpolished are often sold with a huge premium.

Speedmaster101 places a 105.003-65:
Fair 4400$
Good 7000$
Very Good 12000$

Bracelet, endlinks, box and papers (unsigned) - roughly 1500 $??

I am a bit stuck here with what the value should be -
There are a few EW´s for sale with relumed dials and hands, but they might be unsold for this reason…??
I would be very happy for your thoughts and comments….


 
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Maybe a case of bid room fever ??
Thanks for sharing Hans, and for me it is not an attractive watch. i would have guessed € 7000,- max value.
 
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Thank you Hans for all of your auction posts. 👏
They really are appreciated. And imagine coming back to these for reference in 5, 10+ years!

I'm terrible at the assessment and grading of these.
I only have the "how much do I want it meter" and my scale red-lines ($$$ ☹) way before yours!

To me this one needs a buyer who already knows and trusts a great watchmaker and a relumer and what they both can realistically achieve.
But wouldn't that knowledgeable buyer have access to better condition watches at a lower price than this? 🤔

[Edit/added]🤞 Hopefully the new owner steps forward, shares their pre-auction thoughts and strategy, and eventually presents us with a stunner.
Edited:
 
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The Papers made no mention of the movement number and were dated 12-13 years after production. It is possible that the disintegration of the coating on the hands explained some of the white marks on the dial. I totally agree with your assessment Hans.

This was the same Auction House that listed a Speedmaster in your previous weeks posting. One Speedmaster with a very low estimate and coated in gunk. I wait to see if another one appears next week.

I estimated bidding value maximum of GBP3,500 and managed to get one bid in. It went for GBP 6,200! The auction premium had then to be added to that.
Edited:
 
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I'm terrible at the assessment and grading of these.
Fifteen or so years ago, when I was obsessed with Speedmasters, I found it incredible that the truly historic models from the 1960s could be had for less than the cost of the brand new interpretation. I truly felt I was getting so much more of everything that made me passionate about them.
Very basic maths and currency conversions here, but the sales price of this auction EW is a 20% premium on the blue/grey dial FOIS at an OB here in Australia.
Apples and oranges for sure, but that is before any restoration/servicing work. 🤔

Everything is so far out of my reach now that my viewpoint is probably worthless ☹
 
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Thank you Hans for all of your auction posts. 👏
They really are appreciated. And imagine coming back to these for reference in 5, 10+ years!

I'm terrible at the assessment and grading of these.
I only have the "how much do I want it meter" and my scale red-lines ($$$ ☹) way before yours!

To me this one needs a buyer who already knows and trusts a great watchmaker and a relumer and what they both can realistically achieve.
But wouldn't that knowledgeable buyer have access to better condition watches at a lower price than this? 🤔

[Edit/added]🤞 Hopefully the new owner steps forward, shares their pre-auction thoughts and strategy, and eventually presents us with a stunner.
Thanks mate, I always learn new stuff with these auctions!

And I would love to see a presentation of the watch here on the Forum....
 
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The Papers made no mention of the movement number and were dated 12-13 years after production. It is possible that the disintegration of the coating on the hands explained some of the white marks on the dial. I totally agree with your assessment Hans.

This was the same Auction House that listed a Speedmaster in your previous weeks posting. One Speedmaster with a very low estimate and coated in gunk. I wait to see if another one appears next week.

I estimated bidding value maximum of GBP3,500 and managed to get one bid in. It went for GBP 6,200!
Yepp.....crazy price! (and do not forget the premium on the 6200 £...).
 
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Fifteen or so years ago, when I was obsessed with Speedmasters, I found it incredible that the truly historic models from the 1960s could be had for less than the cost of the brand new interpretation. I truly felt I was getting so much more of everything that made me passionate about them.
Very basic maths and currency conversions here, but the sales price of this auction EW is a 20% premium on the blue/grey dial FOIS at an OB here in Australia.
Apples and oranges for sure, but that is before any restoration/servicing work. 🤔

Everything is so far out of my reach now that my viewpoint is probably worthless ☹
All the input that I can get and that Forum members share are very valuable!
Worthless = G and T without the Gin!
😁
 
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I honestly think some people do not account for the premium in their bidding. They think they are bidding roughly what it's worth, in the moment. And it does seem Ed Whites have a certain name recognition.

This case though, seems in pretty good condition. At least the front is very good. It looks exactly as you say, one you could get a new crystal, relume, and it might be really nice. If the dial is in great condition, I think before the premium seems a good price, which brings me back to my first point...
 
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Was this UK auction? Perhaps UK buyer factors in not having to pay import tax?
 
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Was this UK auction? Perhaps UK buyer factors in not having to pay import tax?
Auctions in general are just WEIRD. I've been to a few live ones, and what you get are uninformed buyers who think they know what they're doing, looking at internet sources/etc, and having no idea what they're looking at, or how to judge condition, or whether what they have could be 'fixed'.

ONE example as someone who knows a decent amount about firearms:

I went to a live auction that had a whole bunch of stuff, including a handful of firearms. ONE they had was the Springfield Armory re-issue M1 Garand. These were a modern company (unrelated to the original Springfield Armory) that just took a bunch of vintage and newly made parts to make bottom-tier rifles. These remakes at the time were worth ~$600, with an original 'vintage' M1 Garand matching numbers/etc at about $4000.

Additionally, they had a Browning High Power (a particularly nice one of a very good vintage, VERY early model, had been kept in cosmoline its whole life, so had near perfect finish). A normal High Power is worth ~$500 at the time, with these special ones about $2000. However, it was ALSO marked incorrectly in the auction.

Come auction time, the Garand goes first. It goes up-and-up-and-up. It is clear that folks don't realize what it ISN'T, and bidding goes to $3600 before the hammer drops. At best a 'slight' deal.

The High Power goes next. Bidding starts at $500, but no one bids, and it slowly goes down before I pity bid at $300, and end up winning it.

I went to pick up my winnings at the end of the night, and saw a bunch of people around the guy with the Garand (including most of the bidders), all oo-ing and aahh-ing on it. Guy starts talking about how good of a deal he got, and how it would be even better if it was a 'war bring back', and how great shape it is in.

I watched the color drain from his face when I responded, "well, that has obviously never been in a war, it was made in the mid-2000s as a re-issue, you can get a brand new one for like $700.". The whole group gave a big 'whaaat?!' about that part until I showed them on my phone the exact model, including the stamps that proved I was right.

I ended up keeping that High Power in my safe too afraid to put rounds through it until I found a collector who paid me $3k for it.

Long story to say: Auction buyers do minimum research, see dollar signs in their eyes with near zero knowledge, and assume they know something that someone else doesn't. This is why 'dirty' things seem to sell for a bunch, they figure they are looking at something super valuable that everyone else is going to underpay for because it is dirty.
 
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With many years of selling at auctions (seldom buying) there are always surprises, you never know what might happen. Excitement often overcomes common sense.

I was in Geneve in April, just out for a nice walk on a sunny Saturday, passed by the Antiquorum showroom and it was preview day for an upcoming auction, most of the crowd was guys in their 20's and 30's, hotshots who were going to make a killing buying and then reselling. That's the nature of the game today.
Edited:
 
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Fifteen or so years ago, when I was obsessed with Speedmasters, I found it incredible that the truly historic models from the 1960s could be had for less than the cost of the brand new interpretation. I truly felt I was getting so much more of everything that made me passionate about them.
Very basic maths and currency conversions here, but the sales price of this auction EW is a 20% premium on the blue/grey dial FOIS at an OB here in Australia.
Apples and oranges for sure, but that is before any restoration/servicing work. 🤔

Everything is so far out of my reach now that my viewpoint is probably worthless ☹
You never know, patience and vigilance can get you rewarded - I was lucky enough to find a 105.012 during COVID that was far below the MSRP of the Speedmaster at the time. Deals might be rarer due to how popular the Speedmaster has become, but they still exist.


And regarding the auction results, I feel like I remember a saying, something along the lines of "it only takes two..."
 
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Was this UK auction? Perhaps UK buyer factors in not having to pay import tax?
UK auction, and the final price was with VAT etc...
But if it went for export, the receiving country should be claiming customs duty and VAT.
 
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Long story to say: Auction buyers do minimum research, see dollar signs in their eyes with near zero knowledge, and assume they know something that someone else doesn't. This is why 'dirty' things seem to sell for a bunch, they figure they are looking at something super valuable that everyone else is going to underpay for because it is dirty.
But we all like them "dirty", and sometimes we get a bit blind, and not looking at the details etc...??
 
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But we all like them "dirty", and sometimes we get a bit blind, and not looking at the details etc...??
They are watches, not Women, but I can see the confusion now.
 
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They are watches, not Women, but I can see the confusion now.
It's also the idea of a barn find. And I just know certain collectors would never service or even open a barn find, they'd cherish the state they found it in, put it in a safe, maybe wear twice the rest of their life.

Watch collecting is weird and nearly unexplainable sometimes. It's easy to say some people have more money than sense, but some have both and still spend the money.
Edited:
 
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Watch collecting is weird and nearly unexplainable sometimes. It's easy to say something have more money than sense, but some have both and still spend the money.
Very wise words.

I am more of a hoarder than collector so have no place judging other peoples purchases.
Many of my watches I've still never worn and I've never been able to create a rotation as many others here have.
There is very little logic with the watches that I own. Yet, in other areas of my life, I get extremely frustrated if there is not a logical process.