Hi everyone, I’ve recently seen a few of these so called two liner speedmasters a pré professional dial in the crown guarded style case and was wondering what everyone else’s opinion is in them ? Here is an example online : https://hairspring.com/finds/vintage/perfect-105-012-omega-speedmaster/ Thanks
"Two-Liner" Speedmaster indicates that a Rolex Dealer is selling a Speedmaster Ed White. It tells you a lot about his expertise on this watch, so you better do your own massive due dilligence before even considering this purchase from him
Being quite a bit older than my 145 022’s, older than my 145 012 and also older than my 105 012 and having no teenager to help I’ve had to google LMAO and ROFL... but got there in the end!
WTF? You know that kids change their acronyms and codes as soon as we learn what they mean. Just casually drop into conversation the fact that they're really not the first ones to discover sex. And what that one girl did for them that one time ... been there. Often. It soon shuts them up.
I think this has been debated many times and there is no definitive answer. If any watch was to end up with a Pre Pro dial then it would be the double beveled 105.012. Enough have come to light for me not to dismiss them out of hand. The parts bins at Omega seem to have had a few nooks and crannies where the wrong parts get mixed up. As both the Ed White and this watch were in production at the same time it seems entirely possible that a transition could occur.
Except there is absolutely no evidence for this. It is possible but improbable. Swiss manufacturing, and procedures, in my experience, are painfully precise and proscribed. if the book says "that goes with that" then that is it. So I do find it hard to think that the factory was so slapdash it put dials intended for one reference in another. While I hear many apocryphal stories regarding a non pro dial in a asymmetric case, no-one has ever offered any concrete evidence that this happened from the factory. No one has yet even produced a one owner watch, with a non pro dial in a asymmetric case - with a solid history and chain of ownership. We also have no evidence, (do we?) of Omega manufacturing out of specification watches. The watches with incorrect dials I have seen, have had serials all over the place, and without an extract. I personally bought one years ago, a 105.012 with a non pro dial, and when I asked for an extract it came back 105.003. I think this is by far the most common explanation. I have also seen it the other way around. In all cases, there has been a break in history and provenance. Some have simply been cobbled together by sellers, and others have been through watchmakers in the 1970's where, as I was told, "We serviced speedmasters all at once. We did not care which back went on which watch. Back then it didn't mater". (I actually bought two speedmasters from him!). So yes, it has been debated, but as yet I have seen absolutely no evidence that the factory put non pro dials in an asymmetric case, but I have seen more than one 105.003 movement and dial in an Asymmetric case. Now I am happy to be proved wrong on all this, by some non pro dials in asymmetric cases coming to light with a legitimate history and provenance. Until then, I regard them as incorrect.
I wish we could have discussed this at least 10 years earlier..but today, when 8 out of 10 Speedmasters on Chrono24 are brutal scam and 2 just negligent described, I focus on those which are at least halfway concludent watches. Money is nice, but it seems to bring out the worst in most people.
"This is the sort of vintage find that distinguishes an entire collection." Pity for the seller, as I am after a meters first Speedmaster at the moment.
In all seriousness if you look at other manufacturers like Rolex cost and efficiency out way ‘Correctness’ every time. They were very frugal and would never throw out dials as a new design came in, just carry on until the old parts were finished. Matte dials in 16800 subs and 16660 sea dwellers for example. So if Omega finished all the 105.003 cases could they have a few dials left over that needed a home? It’s a story, but it’s possible.
Again, not likely. Or even possible in my opinion, as the last 105.003 was completed in 1969, long after the production of the 105.012 ceased.
This isn't like switching from alpha to stick hands (105.002), introducing new case backs (145.022-69) or going from step to flat dial (145.022-74). The Pro dial and case went hand in hand together. It was an upgrade to a supposedly more robust model with an improved Professional case to protect the crown and pushers. The pro designation on the dial was integral to that and I don't think parts would have been mixed up.
I think the last 105.003 was in 1964, perfectly timed for the 105.012-64 William. And I was suggesting a waste not want not approach rather than a mix up David Anyway just a theory. I just would judge each watch as it comes rather than write them off without due diligence