Omega Seamaster brought back to life by overhaul without replacing parts

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I thought I share with you my story of the Omega Seamaster 1020 that the customer sent to London for a full service but timekeeping is still poor after service and they cannot do anything further until they called me to step in and do the overhaul service instead of standard service without replacing any parts. I used my Jacot tool to burnish and polish all the pivots and balance staff to solve this issue. Timegrapher results after overhaul service show a big difference with six different positions. Quite an achievement I must say.

Here is the link from my Facebook page. This saves tons of time rather post pictures individually on here and comment description. I do hope this is okay.

Enjoy 😀

https://www.facebook.com/CoopersCog...fBn2aZfagfD1KDCQSYY4ZgLDS5RsmVbCasPQPwAEQHzDl
 
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It would be helpful to post pictures here as well, for the few of us (myself included) who do not have Facebook.

But your call of course!
 
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From your post...

"Here I have omega Seamaster 1020 from the 1970’s. The customer has sent this Omega off to London for full service, they have serviced the Omega and the issue stills occurs. The timekeeping is still poor and it has a low amplitude in all six sided positions. however, some parts omega for the 1000 series is obsolete, and finding parts can be challenging because Omega 1000 series parts is starting to run dry on the stock since 2010, this explains why prices have gone up even though it can be expensive to replace parts especially more than one part, so they have told the customer that omega is a write off because no longer can be used for timekeeping,"

All the parts for the 1010 and 1020 series are still in production and available from Omega - I buy them all the time. By the way, the 1000 series is a different thing to the 1010/1020 series, but those parts are also all still available from Omega.

Burnishing is certainly an important skill to have, but if the pivot is really worn all the burnishing in the world isn't going to make it right again. Burnishing by its nature reduces the diameter of the pivot, as you can see in your photos, so there's only so much you can reduce the diameter until it's too small. At that point, you will want to either replace the part, or repivot the wheel.

Cheers, Al
 
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Enjoyed that, thanks for sharing.

Thank you, no worries. It's always good to know these things.

Great job! Thanks for posting.

You are welcome, thank you for reading it.

It would be helpful to post pictures here as well, for the few of us (myself included) who do not have Facebook.

But your call of course!

I will try again in the future on this site, There are more than 40 photos and every 40 photos has a text description as well. This will take far too long to upload pictures individually on this site. May take 1 hour. Not practical these days.

In the last 15 years. I have uploaded thousands of watchmaking pictures of my work on Imageshack and then send the correct layout picture on the Watch forum like this. However, the Imageshack host went bust and lost all my photos and no longer shows my picture on the watch forum. Amount of effort and time went to waste. So I have uploaded it on Facebook on my account instead. So it will never get lost again in the future and I can easily send the link to a website like this.

What is Facebook?

I'm surprised you don't know what Facebook is, It's a social platform. Also, It's a great place for watchmaking, and watches, It has watchmaking groups, and so on. This is the reason nowadays I upload all my watchmaking works on Facebook instead. It's more practical and easier to use.


From your post...

"Here I have omega Seamaster 1020 from the 1970’s. The customer has sent this Omega off to London for full service, they have serviced the Omega and the issue stills occurs. The timekeeping is still poor and it has a low amplitude in all six sided positions. however, some parts omega for the 1000 series is obsolete, and finding parts can be challenging because Omega 1000 series parts is starting to run dry on the stock since 2010, this explains why prices have gone up even though it can be expensive to replace parts especially more than one part, so they have told the customer that omega is a write off because no longer can be used for timekeeping,"

All the parts for the 1010 and 1020 series are still in production and available from Omega - I buy them all the time. By the way, the 1000 series is a different thing to the 1010/1020 series, but those parts are also all still available from Omega.

Burnishing is certainly an important skill to have, but if the pivot is really worn all the burnishing in the world isn't going to make it right again. Burnishing by its nature reduces the diameter of the pivot, as you can see in your photos, so there's only so much you can reduce the diameter until it's too small. At that point, you will want to either replace the part, or repivot the wheel.

Cheers, Al

Interesting, Are you an Omega Acreddited by any chance? I don't suspect Omega still stocks every single part from the 70's I will be surprised if they do. I have loads of Omega parts, 55xx, 10xx, 102x, and so on. I buy used Omega movement and keep the parts separately, I don't sell parts separately but I used them for a replacement during Omega service If I need to. Things like this help my watchmaking business a lot sometimes. Also, I do my best to preserve the parts by repairing them if possible, Like burnishing and polishing for example, instead of replacing them for the sake of saving parts for better use in the future. Nothing will last forever than stock by Omega.

Well, the parts are very worn and it affects timekeeping and amplitude pretty badly after service. You will be very surprised how little material was taken off without having the sideshake greatly in the jewel hole. Burnish and polish reduce the diameter is very very minimal if you master it properly on the Jacot tool and you can see the end results timegrapher in my picture with great amplitude and timekeeping with six different positions.

The only time you reduce the pinion diameter so much is when not know how to burnish and polish properly on the jacot, taking more material off by mistake. Yes either replace the parts or repivot or the last resort is to change the jewels for a smaller diameter inner jewel hole but then reaming may have to play the part as well.

Hope this help

Mat
 
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It would be helpful to post pictures here as well, for the few of us (myself included) who do not have Facebook.

But your call of course!

+1 and I never allow "cookies"

www.sta.sh is a good place to upload.....
 
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Interesting, Are you an Omega Acreddited by any chance?

Yes, I am. I do understand that watchmakers who don't have access to parts through Omega sometimes have to make compromises in the way they work, which is why I always encourage them to seek Omega certification. The link to your company's web site on your Facebook page doesn't work, so I can't see what equipment you have, but any trained watchmaker with a well-equipped modern shop can pretty easily get certified by Omega.

The only major piece of equipment I can see is your timing machine - that is not of the quality and capability that Omega would accept, so that would need to be upgraded for certain. In addition, you would need a proper cleaning machine, a dry water resistance testing set-up, and a high pressure wet testing set-up (Roxer or equivalent). These are what most modern shops will already have, but if you don't have this equipment it may require spending some money, but you appear to be young enough to have plenty of time to make this money back.

Once you have the equipment and pass some basic training at Omega, parts will be available to you, as well as a wealth of technical information, and if needed Omega specific tools. You clearly have some skills, so I would encourage you to take the next step and look into certification - it will save you a lot of time and trouble, and allow you to elevate your work. I can assure you it is very much worth the investment.

I don't suspect Omega still stocks every single part from the 70's I will be surprised if they do. I have loads of Omega parts, 55xx, 10xx, 102x, and so on. I buy used Omega movement and keep the parts separately, I don't sell parts separately but I used them for a replacement during Omega service If I need to. Things like this help my watchmaking business a lot sometimes.

As I've said, Omega still makes and sells all these parts. For the 55X, 56X, 600's, 750's, 1000's, 1010/1020 and beyond. It's only when you go back to the 500 series or prior calibers that movement parts are not all available.

Well, the parts are very worn and it affects timekeeping and amplitude pretty badly after service. You will be very surprised how little material was taken off without having the sideshake greatly in the jewel hole. Burnish and polish reduce the diameter is very very minimal if you master it properly on the Jacot tool and you can see the end results timegrapher in my picture with great amplitude and timekeeping with six different positions.

As I said, burnishing is a valuable skill to have, and I do it often. However some of the parts you showed are, in my opinion, well past the point of burnishing for repair. As for seeing the end results in the timing machine, that's certainly something, but is not 100% reflective of the end result. Of course as you know some of the parts that were burnished (and some that were too far gone in my opinion), are in the automatic winding system, and results on the timing machine are not going to reflect their ability to function properly, or in the long term. Those parts are under tremendous loads, so making sure they are in like new condition is important.

Also, focusing on the immediate result right after servicing can be somewhat short sighted. When you service a watch that result has to last, so in addition to looking at the immediate result, I always keep in mind that most people will not service a watch on a regular schedule, so the work I do must last for 5 or 10 years. When you are already increasing side shake by burnishing, when that pivot inevitably wears, performance will drop off much quicker than it would with a properly size pivot. Just something to keep in mind.

Yes either replace the parts or repivot or the last resort is to change the jewels for a smaller diameter inner jewel hole but then reaming may have to play the part as well.

I would strongly encourage you not to use a smaller jewel as a way of avoiding a proper repair. All you are doing is making a problem for the next watchmaker who will now have to fix your mistake. You should always repair/replace the part that is bad, not modify the movement to accommodate a bad part. If you are unable to find a new part, then repivoting is the proper repair.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Al
 
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Thank you for your reply, Sorry I haven't introduced myself properly, I'm not exactly young now, I'm 33 but I had a very early start on watchamking. I'm a certified watchmaker who makes watch parts and does watch services and I planning to be accredited by the end of 2024 or early 2025. So I understand what you are saying about proper setup and modern equipment and so on. I have been doing this since 2003 as a teenager and then properly set up in 2010. I have all the proper equipment like the Elma cleaning machine and dry test machine and so on, I only use Bergeon tools as well. I probably spent 25K on tools over the years now. I have Elma watchmatic timegrapher but the screen has faded badly. However I do have a Witschi chronoscope S1 G2 and Witschi Exper 4 timegrapher, I bought a Witschi 1900 machine for a quick replacement during covid situation, and does a bloody fantastic job and it does read Omega co-axial as well but now I use that as a quick bench check.
I can assure you that all the pivots that I burnish and then polish to harden the surface on the pinion to prevent wear and tear resistance and have very very little side shake. Not even noticeable, even on the microscope, What I took off is very very little. It is still acceptable. The result on Timegapher wouldn't be any good if it has big side shakes, however, this isn't the case. Bear in mind, that I burnish very little, almost nothing, and then I polish it to compress the surface for hardening for wear and tear resistance.

I had a customer vintage Rolex Air King from the 1950s, it was a lot worse than the Omega 1020 condition that I had just done recently. I had a Rolex Air King watch for burnish and polish and then a full service afterward, the results are great! That was in 2009. Then it came back to me in 2014 for a second service and then again in 2020. Both timesgrapher results are pretty much the same as 2009 timegrapher results. Similar to Patek Philippe I work on the escape wheel pinion. As long as Burnish and then Polish are done correctly, it will last many years because of wear resistance.

Of course, If the sidesake is too much, I wouldn't use those parts, I would replace it and of course, I wouldn't recommend changing the jewel to a smaller size. I only mentioned that because it's possible that you can but the lifespan on the pinion will be short, so yes I wouldn't do that. Which I understand.

If my Facebook page doesn't work, how come you copy and paste of my comment that was from my Facebook page and you posted it here? Nevermind, I will try and post it here soon if this omega site is not limited upload photos.
Mat


www.sta.sh is a good place to upload.....

That is pretty much like the Imageshack host site. I wouldn't trust them if they sell their website and lose all my photos. I don't want to risk that again.
Edited:
 
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Hi Mat, thanks for sharing. I did check out your Facebook page and understand why you wouldn’t want to duplicate all of that work here. Since you’ve said it twice now though I figured I’d just point out that Facebook isn’t too much different than Imageshack. You’re posting your photos to their platform and are subject to their whims as to what happens with that content or your user account. I assume you still have all of your photos saved locally and hopefully backed up so you can not truly lose anything. As far as online sharing the only way to own your content is to host it on your own domain/website. Then even if your host goes bust you may experience a temporary outage but could move hosts and never lost anything or have old linked content go missing like what happened with Imageshack. I’m not even sure you can embed/share pictures from Facebook. All you’re doing is linking to their site. I understand Facebook is easier and has a wide reach but they own what you post there. All the best. -Alex
 
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Thank you for your reply, Sorry I haven't introduced myself properly, I'm not exactly young now, I'm 33 but I had a very early start on watchamking.

That’s young, at least to me...😀

So I bought Witschi 1900 machine for a quick replacement and does a bloody fantastic job and it does read Omega co-axial as well.

The machine you have will not accurately read the balance amplitude on a co-axial movement. To do so requires specific programming that these machines do not have.

Of course, If the sidesake is too much, I wouldn't use that parts, I would replace it and of course, I wouldn't recommend changing the jewel to a smaller size. I only mentioned that because it's possible that you can but the lifespan on the pinion will be short, so yes I wouldn't do that. Which I totally understand.

That’s the point I’m making. As much as having this skill is very useful, it certainly has its limitations.

If my Facebook page doesn't work, how come you copy and paste of my comment that was from my Facebook page and you posted it here? Nevermind, I will try and post it here soon if this omega site is not limited upload photos.
Mat

If you go back and read my post again, it’s the link to your web site that doesn’t work, not the Facebook page...
 
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If my Facebook page doesn't work, how come you copy and paste of my comment that was from my Facebook page and you posted it here? Nevermind, I will try and post it here soon if this omega site is not limited upload photos.
Mat
Your Facebook page is fine. It’s your website http://coopercogstimepieceservice.com/ that isn't working.
 
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Hi Mat, thanks for sharing. I did check out your Facebook page and understand why you wouldn’t want to duplicate all of that work here. Since you’ve said it twice now though I figured I’d just point out that Facebook isn’t too much different than Imageshack. You’re posting your photos to their platform and are subject to their whims as to what happens with that content or your user account. I assume you still have all of your photos saved locally and hopefully backed up so you can not truly lose anything. As far as online sharing the only way to own your content is to host it on your own domain/website. Then even if your host goes bust you may experience a temporary outage but could move hosts and never lost anything or have old linked content go missing like what happened with Imageshack. I’m not even sure you can embed/share pictures from Facebook. All you’re doing is linking to their site. I understand Facebook is easier and has a wide reach but they own what you post there. All the best. -Alex

Thank you, I understand what you mean.
Ah I see, I misread.
At the moment, My website is shut down and we are moving to a different website soon. should be in August or so.

Mat
That’s young, at least to me...😀

The machine you have will not accurately read the balance amplitude on a co-axial movement. To do so requires specific programming that these machines do not have.
Don't worry about age, it's all about healthwise, that's the main thing 😀
Okay, thank you, What Timegarpher machine that Omega recommend or what do you have?

Mat

EDIT
I have uploaded Photos on the new thread.
 
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Okay, thank you, What Timegarpher machine that Omega recommend or what do you have?

Mat

I use a Witschi Analyzer Twin. As there is a requirement for a quartz analyzer (at least there was back in the time I obtained my certification) and I work on quartz anyway, I wanted a machine that would do both mechanical and quartz watches. For quartz it is very useful for all the checks that need to be done:







Fort mechanical watches it has the standard diagram mode, but I probably use that the least. I am typically using a numeric display like this:





The trace mode is useful for diagnosing the causes of longer term variations:





And for checking positional variation, there a screen specifically for that:



For co-axial, the machine will require a specific program setting - here is my machine set for a traditional Swiss lever escapement:



When measuring Omega co-axial escapements, you use this setting - special 1:



With the AP special escapement, you use this setting - special 2:



Note that all 3 of these measurements were taken using the same movement, and all within 1 minute of each other, so you can see the variation in amplitude...

So unless a timing machine has these special settings, it will not work with a co-axial escapement. I haven't looked for a list of approved machines in a while, but I know for sure that the Witschi Chronoscope S1 and X1 are approved, in addition to the machine I use.

If you require any additional assistance, please let me know.

Cheers, Al
 
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I use a Witschi Analyzer Twin. As there is a requirement for a quartz analyzer (at least there was back in the time I obtained my certification) and I work on quartz anyway, I wanted a machine that would do both mechanical and quartz watches. For quartz it is very useful for all the checks that need to be done:

If you require any additional assistance, please let me know.

Cheers, Al

Way over my head but thank you Al for always taking the time to make these informative posts!
 
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Back to burnishing - I would say the most common reason I use my Jacot tool is to correct flattened ends of balance staffs on vintage watches. When they run for years on dry pivots it can flatten them, and also wear the balance cap jewels:



Flattened pivot:



Mounted in the Jacot:



Here using the lanterns and with just the end of the staff visible:



Initial burnishing:



Final result - the end of the staff is much more rounded and is perfectly burnished to a mirror finish:



This corrected a 30 degree difference in amplitude from dial up to dial down...

Cheers, Al
 
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Thanks, Archer, Great information and photos.

Same here too, balance staff is always the first one to go, especially for Rolex watches. Sadly most of my Rolex clients send their Rolex watches to me for full service and it's a balance staff issue. The problem is they send it once the watch starts to have an issue instead of sending it every four years for full service to avoid problems like balance staff. The watch runs fine for years after synthetic oil has evaporated until it has worn down badly. It is what it is.


That's a nice piece of kit you have Witschi Analyzer Twin. I don't normally work on quartz though, I rarely do in my professional career.
Thanks for providing the information about your timegrapher. I forgot to mention that I also have a professional MTG 9900A timegrapher but I haven't used it for years and it was left behind at my parent's house when I left the town. I need to go and pick that up and start using it but I do have Witschi S1 since 2014 and I had Wistschi X1 back in 2010 but I have issued it with firmware software a couple of years later.
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Beyond my skillet, but enjoyed your post (and discussion) nonetheless.
 
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Beyond my skillet, but enjoyed your post (and discussion) nonetheless.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed my work I have many years of experience doing watchmaking and watch service and I will post more in the future when I can.