Pursuant to a previous thread it was stated by member @Baz9614 that later iterations of the Seamaster 300 reference 165.024 were supposed to be equipped with the upgraded screw-in crown rather than the Naiad push-in originally supplied. The claim was based on this very informative article, which contains the assertion that "The Naiad was fitted to SM300s up until 1967. The screw-down after was fitted after that. As always, earlier versions with screw-down should raise suspicion. The same goes with later models with a Naiad crown. Although this, according to my experience is rarely seen." Source: http://thatwatchandmore.blogspot.com/2013/03/buying-vintage-omega-seamaster-300.html?m=1 Now I personally had always believed that the screw-in crown was a post-factory upgrade perhaps made at buyer request of the dealer for those more serious about their diving and after the flaws with Naiad system had come to light. I'm willing to accept that I was mistaken in that belief and that later SM 300 165.024s left the factory in Switzerland with the screw-in crown. However, I still have my doubts about this somewhat early timeline for installation of the screw down crown and the idea that Naiad crowns later than that are somehow worthy of suspicion. So I did a simple, easily duplicated Google image search of "Omega Seamaster 165.024 1968." These are some of the voluminous results, as I always feel sample size is a good way to go in decoding these sorts of trends and changes with vintage watches -- keep in mind that both 26 million and 27 million movement serials are given as 1968 production dates according to Omega's own table: 27.1 mil SN -- Naiad: http://www.josephbonnie.com/en/prod...00-vintage-ref-165-024-caliber-552-year-1968/ 27.4 mil SN -- Naiad: https://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/f...tritium-dial-plexi-1171-bracelet-4659643.html 27.9 mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.lunaroyster.com/archive...-300-sword-hands-165024-on-flat-link-bracelet Serial number blocked but claims 1968 -- Screw-in: http://www.secondtimearoundwatchco.com/watches-for-sale/a/a/11395 26 mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.craftandtailored.com/products/1968-omega-seamaster-300-ref-165-024 26.2 mil SN -- Naiad: http://watcholdtimes.de/en/produkt/omega-seamaster-300-ref-165-024-from-1968/ 27.9 mil SN -- Naiad: http://www.lionseek.com/watches/bra...aster-300-sword-hands-165-024-on-strap-874ed6 26.2 mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.thevintageur.com/product/omega-seamaster-300-big-triangle-165-024-diver/ 27.1 mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.europeanwatch.com/21526.html 25.6mil SN -- Screw-in: https://wannabuyawatch.com/product/omega-seamaster-300-ref-165-024-circa-1967-2/ 27 mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/eoexy204/1968-omega-seamaster-300-st165.024-A281 27.5mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/40dprp0e/1967-omega-seamaster-300-166.024-big-triangle-4756 27.0 mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/mo2leg0x/1967-omega-seamaster-300-165.024-6274 27.1 mil SN -- Naiad; https://www.stetzcowatches.com/prod...024-1039-bracelet-w-516-end-links-1968-steel/ So as we can see here the Naiad crown is still quite prevalent well into the 27 mil range, which is likely well into 1968 production. We also see some screw-ins appearing obviously and I've also included an early outlier that was almost certainly retrofitted. This is not say that I draw any hard and firm conclusions other than the apparent fact that the Naiad was not actually phased out by late 1967. It seems highly unlikely that so many of these would be "reversed" for the push-in Naiad either, especially as that requires an entirely different tube and is not just s straight crown swap. In other words if you have a later 165.024 with a Naiad and not a screw-in crown I would have to conclude that it's perfectly acceptable. As for myself, I still kind of feel like the screw-in crown was some sort of ex-factory option and not really standardized. Otherwise why so many surviving Naiads so late in the 165.024 game? Could be replacing the crown was also a recommended procedure for factory service later on when these watches were turned in for overhaul. Hard to know for sure and YMMV on that. But IMO, both crowns can be found later in production and it should not prejudice the overall opinion of any given 165.024's authenticity. Clearly a screw-in crown appearing too early is another story, of course. But again, if we are looking at an overall customer or Omega-recommended upgrade scenario even that might take on a different hue. Best to all & all opinions welcome, T.
Addendum: Interestingly and as a corollary, here are some 166.024 date models and they almost all seem to have the screw-in crown: 26.3mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.lunaroyster.com/archive-omega/1968-omega-seamaster-300-big-triangle-166024 27.5mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/40dprp0e/1967-omega-seamaster-300-166.024-big-triangle-4756 28.2 mil SN-- Screw-in: https://www.lunaroyster.com/archive-omega/v1tce6x5gqboc7pujro846nlyn05gp 27.9 mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.vintage-portfolio.com/s...eamaster-300-with-broad-arrow-dauphine-hands/ 28.2 mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.thevintageur.com/product/omega-seamaster-300-big-triangle-166-024-2/ Serial not visible but "-67" -- Screw-in: https://www.europeanwatch.com/24205.html 27.9mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.classicwatch.com/asp/bu...x2741')&ManCode=86&Model=Seamaster+300&Step=1 26.9 mil SN -- Naiad: https://www.chrono24.com/omega/seam...e-gilt-1968-con--estratto--id8972612.htm#gref 28.2 mil SN -- Screw-in: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Omega-Steel...6-024-Vintage-1969-With-Archive-/263904237087Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network 31.1 mil SN -- Screw-in: http://watcholdtimes.de/en/produkt/omega-seamaster-300-ref-166-024-from-1969/ Serial not visible but "-67" -- Naiad: https://www.chrono24.ph/omega/seamaster-300-166024--id9418434.htm So it's pretty clear there is a distinction between the two models and the screw-in crown was phased in more aggressively and uniformly on the date 166.024 than the older non-date 165.024, although still not exactly cut and dry. And that could be where some of the confusion about appropriate crown timelines comes in to play. Best, T.
If I could offer the following from the Omega Extranet... 055ST1650024 069ST42028 - not screw down 055ST1650024SP 069ST42062 - screw down 055ST1660024 069ST42028 - not screw down 055ST1660024SP 069ST42062 - screw down 055ST1660024SP2 069ST42062 - screw down I do not believe these were only a "retrofit". Cheers, Al
Nice data and appreciate you sharing it. I am not an expert on 300sm but have been looking at them fairly closely for at least 2-3 years. My impression is that when it comes to bezels, hands and crowns, Omega would use up parts that were laying around. It makes sense that if a switch of hands or crown was made in say 1967, seeing the older parts on a 1967-68 watch would not bother me and I could understand the watch leaving the factory like that. Now if those old parts were seen on a newer watch 2-3 years out, that would make me seriously doubt the originality of those parts leaving the factory with the watch. On the other hand, seeing a new part in a watch manufactured BEFORE the date of part change would seem less logical and would bother me.
Hi, Al. Thanks very much for this info. These are the Omega crown and/or tube part numbers following the model? Also interesting is that on the period backs (those with 6 digit model numbers still) one finds SC as well as SP and that both appear added after initial inner back stamping. Some period, non modern backs pictured from the above data to see if we can glean a bit more of a pattern or logic: Back from 26.3mil 166.024 with screwed crown -- SP2 suffix/HF case: Back from a 27.5 mil 166.024 with screwed crown -- SC suffix/HF case: Back from a 26.9 mil 166.024 with Naiad crown -- SC suffix/HF case: Back from a 26 mil 165.024 with screwed crown -- no suffix/CB case: Back from a 27mil 165.024 with Naiad -- no suffix/HF case: And a 166.024 with Naiad -- and SP2 suffix/HF case: Sooooo... not really sure what to make of these suffixes or lack thereof. Ostensibly ones with SP or SC would match the screw-in crown and ones with no suffix would be the Naiad. But it seems a bit more all over the place than that -- what fun would it be if it were that easy, I guess? Thanks again & all the best, Tom
An additional question, I believe that a CB case (changeover from HF in -68) should all have a screw down crown? What’s your observations? So not to follow serial numbers, but break it down by case manufacturer? Just a thought....
I gave you the current crown part numbers. The case tube for the 1650024 non screw down it is 090ST1306. The case tube for the 1650024SP screw down crown is 090ST0133. The case tube for the 1660024 non screw down crown is 090ST9002. The case tube for the 1660024SP screw down crown is 090ST0133. The case tube for the 1660024SP2 screw down crown is 090ST0133. Cheers, Al
That would also be too easy -- looks like a CB case is not 100% indicative of a screwed crown: https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...65-024-cb-case-w-extract-1506-bracelet.77434/ https://omegaforums.net/threads/seamaster-300-registry-and-general-information.41400/ https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-VInta...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network Also want to add that when Omega issues and extract for 165.024/166.024 I have never seen them use a "SP" or "SC" suffix as part of the descriptor. And finally just want to ad a pic of a modern service back where they do use the SP suffix, indicating to me that this is what Omega finally settled upon as the standardized terminology for their parts, which corresponds to the info @Archer provided: Best, T.
Hello gents, I have a questions which I hope fits best to this thread. I have a watchco case 166.0324 with the SD crown of course. I want to mod it to Naiad crown system. I have the Naiad crown an case tube form Cousins to make the swap. Question goes probably to Archer: can this swap be made on this service case? Is the SD case tube 090ST0133 just pressed into the case? If so, it could be easy job to do, as it would be just pull out/ press in the case tube job. Second question: if I do the swap, I`ll probably destroy the actual SD case tube while pulling out. Can this case tube be sourced somewhere, if I will ever change my mind and want to return to SD crown system (Cousins are out of stock) Thank you!
Thanks. So to answer one question, yes the current case tube in the 1660324 case is pressed in place. So to change it you have to remove it without damaging the case and then a new tube can be pressed in. The old tube will be destroyed on removal, and I use an easy out style tool for this, and it will require application of heat to the case area surrounding the tube typically, so the bezel/crystal should likely be removed for this work. However, the tube you have ordered is smaller where it enters the case than the tube that is in there now. People often don't understand that there were different version of these cases, and not all of them were the same. So there isn't just one Naiad version out there. I have both the 090ST0133 and 090ST9002 tubes ins tock here, and measuring them both the portion that goes into the case is 2.2 mm in diameter on the 090ST0133 tube, where it's only 2.0 mm in diameter on the 090ST9002 tube, so the tube you have will be too small for the case you are trying to install it in. I don't have one in stock, but there is another tube for a non-screw down crown version, and the part number is 090ST1306. That may have the same diameter as the one you have now, but I have no way of knowing that without ordering one in. Good luck with your conversion. Cheers, Al
Thank you very much. So If I understand correctly, the swap cant be made with the case tube 090ST9002 I have, as it is 0,2mm smaller in diameter in comparison to 090ST0133, so it will be loose. Thats not good news Anyway, what it means probably, considering your previous post about part numbers from OMEGA extranet for the older 166.024 cases, that the modification to SD crown from Naiad is one way mod, as for installing the SD crown you need to enlarge the hole in the case to 2,2mm. Have no other logical explanation... Another idea: what if I keep in the case the SD tube and just change the crown? I expect the tube has got internal thread, so it may not be disturbing? What would help, if you can measure both crown tubes in all possible angles. Maybe also a photo would be appreciated, as I`ve never seen the 090ST0133 tube extracted. Last think you can maybe do for me: If you are able to order the 090ST1306, please do so and I will buy it from you, including 090ST0133, so I have all 3 versions of tubes to play with. If you wish we can continue in PM. I don`t give up easily I`ve seen this mod done on the service cases on the internet, so there must be a way how to achieve that mod Big respect to you Archer, sharing your knowledge!
^^^photos for you... First the 090ST0133 that's in the case now: End that goes into the case: End that the crown goes on: Now the 090ST09002 - since you have one you could take all these measurements yourself by the way... End that goes into the case: End that the crown goes on: So this plan: "Another idea: what if I keep in the case the SD tube and just change the crown?" will need a rethink... I don't sell parts to people, so I can't help you on your parts needs. Cheers, Al
Thank you very much for the measurements, I don`t have the parts and tool to measure with me now , sorry. Now it is obvious, that it will not work without or modifying the SD tube turning it from 3,1 to 2,5mm or having the tube custom made. Once more, big thanx.