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lucreative
·Kind of a long post, but hopefully interesting...
Hi Omega Forum members. I need help to unravel a mystery. I just recently acquired an Omega Seamaster 321 Chronograph 105.004 in a solid 14k gold case. An interesting thing I found was the number “L8850” stamped underneath one of the gold lugs. The other 2 lugs had gold hallmarks. After doing some quick research, I discovered that it may be a “Retailed by Cartier” Inventory Number stamped on the lug. But the dial (luckily IMHO) does not have the double-signed “Cartier” signature logo. I’ve seen some examples on other watches and I think they are done very poorly.
The serial number dates this Omega example to 1965. The case back has 105.004 with 14k gold hallmarks, Hammerhead Hallmark of case manufacturer 176 Boites de montres "Bielna S.A." Biel/Bienne. Also has an inscribed “D-3968-xxxx” (which I don’t know the meaning).
Here are some compelling evidence that I found online that this might be the case…for my case.
1.) A Hodinkee sold example of an “IWC Retailed by Cartier” has a similar “L9724” marked underneath the lug and matches the time frame “1960s” of my example. (unfortunately no pictures)
https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/...a36OCdkMV7TLnLDiak_x9d&variant=32884012908619
“Cartier has been a retailer for various premium Swiss watchmakers during its history, including Audemars Piguet, Omega, Patek Philippe, and Rolex, just to name a few. Cartier was often known to stamp its own identification numbers on the cases of the watches it retailed, and on this example, you can see the number "L9724" marked on the outside of the caseback and on the backside of the lug.”
Maker: IWC
Year: 1960s
Case No: L9724 572; Inside Case No: 1799663; Movement No: 1800956
Material: 18k yellow gold
2.) An article by Christie’s, Double-signed watches: a collector’s guide, that shows this was a common practice for Cartier with other branded watches during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s.
https://www.christies.com/en/storie...ecting-guide-16a92e6be45d4953b582b97a64952f3b
“In the United States, Cartier continued to sell watches made by its competitors in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. This was due to the fact that the American store was an entirely separate business from Cartier’s European offices, which had fractured in the aftermath of the Second World War. Therefore, its owner Robert Kenmore could stock - and double-sign - watches by the likes of Patek Philippe, Rolex and Audemars Piguet, before Cartier was globally reconciled in the late 1970s.”
Finally…
3.) Various verified Cartier inventory stamp examples on lugs that matches or have similar fonts to the stamp on my example. (many pictures below)
The only thing different from my example and most of the rest is that I do not have the “Cartier” signature logo on my dial. The exception I found was the Universal Geneve with similar stamping and thus started this deep dive with a poster's response. So, was my dial replaced? No place to fit the “Cartier” signature? Or the original buyer did not want it included when they ordered the watch.
Maybe the only way to find out for sure is to order an Omega Abstract from Archives to see who this 105.004 was sold to, or go into a Cartier Boutique to have them verify in person since they do not have an online database.
Any ideas? What’s the consensus thought? I would really love to discover the full history to this beautiful example.
Hi Omega Forum members. I need help to unravel a mystery. I just recently acquired an Omega Seamaster 321 Chronograph 105.004 in a solid 14k gold case. An interesting thing I found was the number “L8850” stamped underneath one of the gold lugs. The other 2 lugs had gold hallmarks. After doing some quick research, I discovered that it may be a “Retailed by Cartier” Inventory Number stamped on the lug. But the dial (luckily IMHO) does not have the double-signed “Cartier” signature logo. I’ve seen some examples on other watches and I think they are done very poorly.
The serial number dates this Omega example to 1965. The case back has 105.004 with 14k gold hallmarks, Hammerhead Hallmark of case manufacturer 176 Boites de montres "Bielna S.A." Biel/Bienne. Also has an inscribed “D-3968-xxxx” (which I don’t know the meaning).
Here are some compelling evidence that I found online that this might be the case…for my case.
1.) A Hodinkee sold example of an “IWC Retailed by Cartier” has a similar “L9724” marked underneath the lug and matches the time frame “1960s” of my example. (unfortunately no pictures)
https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/...a36OCdkMV7TLnLDiak_x9d&variant=32884012908619
“Cartier has been a retailer for various premium Swiss watchmakers during its history, including Audemars Piguet, Omega, Patek Philippe, and Rolex, just to name a few. Cartier was often known to stamp its own identification numbers on the cases of the watches it retailed, and on this example, you can see the number "L9724" marked on the outside of the caseback and on the backside of the lug.”
Maker: IWC
Year: 1960s
Case No: L9724 572; Inside Case No: 1799663; Movement No: 1800956
Material: 18k yellow gold
2.) An article by Christie’s, Double-signed watches: a collector’s guide, that shows this was a common practice for Cartier with other branded watches during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s.
https://www.christies.com/en/storie...ecting-guide-16a92e6be45d4953b582b97a64952f3b
“In the United States, Cartier continued to sell watches made by its competitors in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. This was due to the fact that the American store was an entirely separate business from Cartier’s European offices, which had fractured in the aftermath of the Second World War. Therefore, its owner Robert Kenmore could stock - and double-sign - watches by the likes of Patek Philippe, Rolex and Audemars Piguet, before Cartier was globally reconciled in the late 1970s.”
Finally…
3.) Various verified Cartier inventory stamp examples on lugs that matches or have similar fonts to the stamp on my example. (many pictures below)
The only thing different from my example and most of the rest is that I do not have the “Cartier” signature logo on my dial. The exception I found was the Universal Geneve with similar stamping and thus started this deep dive with a poster's response. So, was my dial replaced? No place to fit the “Cartier” signature? Or the original buyer did not want it included when they ordered the watch.
Maybe the only way to find out for sure is to order an Omega Abstract from Archives to see who this 105.004 was sold to, or go into a Cartier Boutique to have them verify in person since they do not have an online database.
Any ideas? What’s the consensus thought? I would really love to discover the full history to this beautiful example.
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