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  1. remerus Apr 16, 2017

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    Hello Gents,

    Came across this one a little while ago, Apologies in advance for the photo quality.

    Just trying to identify it if someone recognises it

    Cheers
     
    20170415_163115.jpg 20170415_163133.jpg 20170415_163639.jpg 20170415_163850.jpg 20170415_163931.jpg 20170415_163941.jpg
  2. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 16, 2017

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    It looks like a nice example.

    A gold filled / rolled gold case by Dennison of England and cased in Australia by Swift and Grice Jewellers in Brissy.

    Screen Shot 2017-04-16 at 4.48.39 PM.png

    I can't make out enough detail on the movement but would guess it to be from around 1910 to 1916.
    Maybe a Caliber 19''' NN L with a low jewel count.
     
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  3. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Apr 16, 2017

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    It's either a really cool piece with a Denison case for the AU or a wierd fake.

    It's up to you to figure it out. The movement shots don't give enough info.

    I've been drinking so take that for what it's worth.
     
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  4. remerus Apr 16, 2017

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    Hi Gents thank you for the comments. Here are clearer shots of the movement.
     
    20170416_180948.jpg
  5. remerus Apr 16, 2017

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    ..
     
    20170416_180934.jpg
  6. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 16, 2017

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    Any chance you can measure the diameter of the movement in millimetres?
     
  7. remerus Apr 16, 2017

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    I will have to next time i have it to hand, having said that i would guess i mid 40s.
     
  8. remerus Apr 19, 2017

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    Got the veneer calipers out today, the movement measures 42mm
     
  9. François Pépin Apr 20, 2017

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    It is a genuine Omega, with a genuine Omega movement. It is a 19 lignes size, but I would prefer not to call it a 19'' because it has lesser jewels than the classical true 19'' and has a flat hairspring instead of a Breguet one.

    Not the best quality movement, but genuine and still nice!
     
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  10. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 20, 2017

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    OK, I get the prize, 19'''.

    ;)

    On an aside, @François Pépin said "Not the best quality movement". In an Australian conversation that would mean the watch was crap ("merde" for François).

    In our vernacular I would call it "not the highest quality movement" produced by Omega.

    Why?

    Well the start is the jewel count, the best movements have jewels on almost everything that moves, and the highest quality in this caliber would have had 21 or 23 jewels.

    Next is the quality of finish on the plates, screw heads and other visible and hidden parts. The highest quality had lots of engraving/polishing/anglage to really decorate the watch.

    So what does that mean with your watch?

    It has the same parts used in the higher quality finishes but only seven jewels (guessing) as this is the minimum count for a quality movement.

    At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you aren't going to inspect the movement every day, and bushings can be replaced as easily as jewels if you wear the watch often enough to wear them out.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Jim
     
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  11. François Pépin Apr 20, 2017

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    Yes, you won Jim!

    I agree with Jim, but I think we may distinguish between two aspects here:

    i) the quality of the finish
    The OP's watch does not have the highest quality finish (I borrow Jim's wording!). But it has more or less the classic Omega pocket watch finish, which is not bad at all. Omega did much better for higher quality movements, but this one is still simple but nice.

    ii) the quality of the functional parts
    It may be more complicated here. The low amount of jewel has an effect about the wear (bushings wear out much more quickly than jewels - well, usually the wheels pivots get worn before jewels)! But it has also an effect on the amplitude and the accuracy as there are much more frictions with bushings.

    Still, it is not always possible to see those differences on the actual movements! I have owned and serviced a few 7 jewels Omega pocket watch movements and the time keeping was not bad at all. Actually, as far as accuracy is concerned, I beleive the condition is much more important for those old movements than the initial quality.

    The same can be said concerning the balance complete. The OP's watch does not have the nice Breguet hairspring Omega used for its good and best movements. But a flat hairspring can be as accurate and this watch has the same king of bimetallic balance for temperature compensation - of course, it does [edit: typo! "does NOT"] have the Guillaume balance Omega only used in some rare high end movements!


    So I guess the conclusion has already been given by Jim: "not the highest quality movement produced by Omega", but not so bad!
     
    Edited Apr 20, 2017
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  12. remerus Apr 20, 2017

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    Jim, Francois, Thank you both for the excellent information on my watch I am very please to know a bit more about it really.

    As far as I am aware it belonged to my great grandfather on my mothers side so is a personal watch in this regard so my concern as to the value of the watch is really not paramount.

    Francois, You mention that is has a Guillaume balance, I sense that by you're remark it is an oddity for it to be on a lower end watch such as this. Would this have been like this from the factory or an addition later on?
     
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  13. mac_omega Apr 20, 2017

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    IMO it is not a Guillaume balance, it looks more like an Earnshaw cut balance as the cut is very near to the spoke - unlike at the Guillaume balance where the cut is farther away from the spoke.
     
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  14. François Pépin Apr 20, 2017

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    Sorry, a typo... I meant to say: it is NOT a Guillaume balance, etc.
     
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  15. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 20, 2017

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    Vous êtes des erreurs en anglais ne sont pas aussi mauvais que mes erreurs en français!

    :D
     
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  16. François Pépin Apr 20, 2017

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    By the way, the only Omega pocket watch I know that has a Guillaume balance is the "verybest" grade, DDR quality, which was issued at 456 pieces - and I am not sure all those pieces had the Guillaume balance! So obviously not for 7 jewels movements!
     
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  17. François Pépin Apr 20, 2017

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    Merci Jim, vous êtes un ami!
     
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  18. mac_omega Apr 20, 2017

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    Not quite correct - also the Cal. 21´´´chronometre de bord and the Cal. 47.7 had a Guillaume balance
     
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  19. François Pépin Apr 20, 2017

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    Thanks for the correcting.

    I was only talking of pocket watches. Though, the 21.1 and the 47.7 were also used in pocket watches, so you are right: I was wrong!

    After checking, here are the Omega watches that had or could have a Guillaume balance according to the Omega Museum:

    Cal. 21´´´chronomètre de bord
    Cal. 47.7 pocket watche and chronomètre de bord
    Cal 20 NN "verybest" grade, DDR
    Cal 43.15 NN DDR (another "verybest", sort of a successor of the previous one)
    Cal 47.7 NN (which won world reccords of accuracy between 1933 and 1936!)
    60.8 L chronomètre de bord

    There are also some Lemania movements used by Omega:
    206 53.7 T4 CHROR Lémania 24"''
    53.7 T4 CHROR Lémania 24"'
     
    Edited Apr 20, 2017
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  20. Canuck Apr 20, 2017

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    One of my favourite Omega pocket watches. This one is a Louis Brandt and freres, 19-jewel, grade CCR, railroad approved in Canada. This is equivalent to US 16-size. These higher grade Brandt movements are more elaborately finished than the lower grades.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg