hey guys,

I'm trying to get my mind off other things, so I've been wearing this. It just came in today.

It was sold to me as a 2181 with 30T2 manual wind movement. When I was considering it, I queried some of the masters here on OF, and I got mixed opinions. I bought it anyway, and now that I have it, I'd like to get some feedback and see if we can come to consensus on the dial. Some feedback I had points to the 5 and 7 o'clock markers and how they dip into the subdials as a possible sign of a redial. Other opinion differs and says it's OK. Obviously the dial has some staining around 11 and between 3 and 4.

Other than that, how's the rest? Case OK? Crown original? I haven't been able to find too much about these. OVDB doesn't seem to have a 2181 listed. There is a 2180 listed that appears to match the traits, but there's no reference pics. They also have an OT 2181, but it's a solid gold case. I found a few threads here and elsewhere. Some of those are obvious redials, or much more degraded in condition.

I'd gladly welcome any and all feedback - good or bad. Don't be shy.

On to some pics...

 

Some pics from the seller too..

 

Hi,

First, thanks for your post. I like such posts with precise questions, good pictures and relevant data!

I think... It is hard to tell! I have mixt feelings:

- overall good quality, so it is a redial it is a good one.

- this kind dial matches the period when the 39T2 were produced and can be found on watches with this caliber.

- the logo and the Omega script look good to me, as well as the "Swiss Made".

But :
- the 5, 6 and 7 numbers are a bit odd like your OF´s experts said: they should not go into the subdial.

- the subdial have quality marks, but they probably should be closer to the edge.

- the minute hand, which could be genuine, would usually touch a bit more the "chemin de fer" ( minute marks).

Because of the 5, 6 and 7 markers, I would probably vote for a good old redial. But it matches the style of the watch and, depending on the price you paid, I would not necessary be too unhappy with that. Especially for a "jumbo" - well, I prefer less large watches but I know jumbos with 30t2 are pretty rare and are sought after!

 

Sorry, but I must contradict - there is no such rule on early Omegas - I have seen even worse (uneven) "overlaps" on vintage original watches of that era.
The "background" area of the dial is so evenly and finely brushed vertically which is near impossible to replicate... and also the rim of the sunken subdial area is so crisp... These are my most significant hints for an original dial.
The print is crisp, the fonts and proportions are exactly what I expect from such a watch.
If this is a redial - I would be happy to find this artisan to have him work on some of my project dials!

 

I'm completely with Erich on this one

Let's not forget that when these beauties were made the whole world was in a period of austerity and as such the variance in dials was enormous.

I've lost count of the number of times that I've had a 30T2 or similar dial questioned and after extensive research it's been totally original and correct

This is an original dial IMHO

Pick up a copy of JTT and see the wildly different dials in the 30mm section, not just in design but font type, logo type, Swiss made/ no Swiss made markings etc etc

Here is my recently landed 30T2 jumbo! Bless you Ebay

 

I think the crown could be serviced replacement, I have some original crowns for these so I will stick one in the post to you

 

Well, you may be right! But it would be interesting to compare the OP'dial with one - assuming it is genuine - with marks going THIS DEEP into the subdial.

 

So, let´s compare! Just to be clear: I am not trying to make a point, and from the begining I am talking carefully and not assuming definitely anything.

I have not found a dial exactly the same as the OP´s watch. But I have found interesting exemples to compare in this great thread:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/lets-see-some-30mm-manual-wind-omegas.1546/page-9

We cannot do a precise comparison (dials are not the same), and I agree there are many variations in this period. But still interesting to give an idea.

My impression is that numbers touching or going slightly into the subdial clearly happen in genuine dials. But maybe not as far as in the OP´s watch and mostly on lumed numbers. And I have not found an exemple where the 6 number is concerned as well as the 5 and 7 - not saying it does not exist though.

Thoughts?

(Photo are courtesy of the great amateurs who posted them in this great thread.)

 

View attachment 306560

 

More pics (I have issues posting them in one post).

 

Again.

 

View attachment 306569 And again.

(Sorry, I could not include some of the pictures I had selected - issues when trying with my cell phone).

 

For your ease of mind...

Obviously you do not believe without proof ( the statement of a seasoned collector does not seem enough...)



bleeding at "6" - uneven, only at one side



bleeding only at 5, 7 is correct



one more example, bleeding only at "5"



on a NOS dial, heavy bleeding at "7" - less at "5"

and an other NOS example:



this time with luminous...

Are you convinced now?

best

Erich

 

Thank you for your answer.

I did not mean that I did not trust your expérience and your jugement. But with all due respect, when in doubt, a proof is always better!

Actually, I did not doubt that there could be "bleeding numbers" on a genuine dial. My first post was probably misleading - I should have add "printed numbers that go "that far" into the subdial. So my mistake.

But I raised a more precise question in my second post. And I am still wondering because on the OP's watch, there are precise printed numbers going pretty far into the subdial. So it is not a clumsy painting or some approximation.

Actually, I understand my last sentence could pretty well be a good argument for a genuine dial! Well, I guess at that point my feeling is it is a too good quality to be a redial, but it remains a bit unusual. I mean: printed numbers, including 6, going this far into the subdial.

 

Wow, it's so awesome to wake up to such great feedback! Thank you guys! I really appreciate all the time you guys have put into this.

With regards to the case, it appears that there are bevels on the edges of the lugs. On this watch they appear pretty crisp to me, but this is the first case of this type I've actually held in my hands. Any views on the case would be welcome as well.

@Tom Dick, an original crown would be awesome! I suspected that the one that's on there might be a replacement with the turned up feet... seems like more of a 70's style logo, at least as compared to Speedmaster crowns that I'm more familiar with.

Thanks again gents!

 

Well, I am not saying otherwise! I guess he is the best to convice me, if he thinks my last doubt still deserve his attention.

 

Yes, there are facets on the lugs - this is correct.

Please send me the movement serial# to check the age (PM if you prefer) - the winding crown could be the original one depending on the age of the watch. My 2181 is much earlier with a case serial number instead of the ref. # inside the case back.

So as your´s might be pretty much later the signed crown could be legit!

 

Thanks Erich!

Movement number from a seller pic is 11,387,3xx.

Hope that's legit for the reference!

 

Your serial number is pretty high compared to mine (9.264.xxx) - so around 1950

IMHO your winding crown might be legit for that late 2181-2 I would not swap it - it looks quite used at the teeth - so it is reasonable that it left the factory with this crown...