Omega Gilt Dial Constellation - Is this a good find???

[blopkinz]

Okay guys,

I got burned by the last watch purchase (thankfully got a refund) and you all really helped me verify the authenticity and my ideocracy from the last purchase, to which I vow to not make the same mistakes ever again...

Thoughts on this watch? Is this a beauty, a fake, or Frankenwatched?

 

[blopkinz]

To add, it seems to pass the M O Y test!! I just learned about this today, all of you are immaculate humans teaching me about the art of watches. I am so psyched.

 

[MtV]

-re Chronometre spelling was used until the late 50s, ~58 or so. The watch in question is from about a decade later…

There are a few more issues, that alone is an easy tell-tale sign for you though.

 

[blopkinz]

MtV

-re Chronometre spelling was used until the late 50s, ~58 or so. The watch in question is from about a decade later…

There are a few more issues, that alone is an easy tell-tale sign for you though.

@MtV they are saying that this watch is coming from 1956, do you have any reference of about a decade later? I show one from 1957 that looks exactly like this, they're saying it comes with a certificate of authenticity - what are the other tell-tale signs though?

 

[johnk22]

Looks like a 168.010 or 168.018

 

[Bruce235]

Wrong case as said
Over polished case
Sloppy minute marks, see the alignment with minute marks and indices
Font has no serifs
No space between l and crosshairs
Wrong crown
E in made looks poor
It’s a jungle out there.
Always a bad sign when hands are covering the text, they are hiding something.

 

[Dan S]

Some subtle printing errors, but this lets you see a better quality re-dial.

 

[gbesq]

blopkinz,

While I understand your desire to own an authentic vintage Constellation in collectible condition, I think that you would benefit from more time researching and less time searching. In other words, I don't think that you've amassed enough knowledge yet to be able to spot a good vintage example from among the much larger universe of fakes, frankens and examples that have seen better days. In short, watch videos (the Omega Enthusiast videos on YouTube are excellent), read everything you can (start with this: https://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/) and just hang out here on OF for awhile and avail yourself of all the threads on vintage Constellations. We will, of course, help you with your selection of a watch, but you really need to learn more before you go shopping. Vintage watch collecting is a minefield and knowledge is your best friend. Just my two cents.

 

[Peemacgee]

johnk22

Looks like a 168.010 or 168.018

I think you're right about the 168.018 case

 

[Peemacgee]

@blopkinz

it's all good advice above.

To be fair, you did at least ask if the watch is a beauty, fake or Franken.

It is not quite a fake - although it is purporting to be something it is not and could never be.
It is indeed a frankenwatch and definitely not a beauty.
And definitely not worth $3,660 😲
https://www.chrono24.com/omega/omega-constellation-pie-pan--id28460119.htm

The advice about research is very pertinent here.

The advert says it is ref 2852.
The 2852 did indeed come with arrowhead dials and the spelling of 'chronometer'.
However, 2852s had lyre shared lugs not straight lugs as on the watch in the advert.
(I've pasted the link because the info is so bad folks might want to avoid the seller altogether)

The case looks like a late 60s 168.010 that only came with a flat dial (as opposed to dome dial)
So it is a put together watch.

So, you need to familiarise yourself with the different case references and which dials those references came with - this will make it easier for you to know when someone is having you on.

BTW the case is in incredibly poor condition (there are no stars at all on the medallion!)
The price of the watches you are looking at is going up but the actual value is going down.
This is a parts watch - probably worth $200-300, for the movement (assuming it is a constellation movt) and a dodgy dial.

Hope that helps

 

[MtV]

Wow. There are a lot of bad deals out there, but this one is indeed overpriced by a factor of >10. Ambitious.

 

[sgk]

I know how it can be getting caught in the thrill of the chase. However, why not focus only on listings on OF? Much higher chances of getting a 'correct' specimen though you might have to exercise more patience.

 

[ecarpino]

Peemacgee

@blopkinz

it's all good advice above.

To be fair, you did at least ask if the watch is a beauty, fake or Franken.

It is not quite a fake - although it is purporting to be something it is not and could never be.
It is indeed a frankenwatch and definitely not a beauty.
And definitely not worth $3,660 😲
https://www.chrono24.com/omega/omega-constellation-pie-pan--id28460119.htm

The advice about research is very pertinent here.

The advert says it is ref 2852.
The 2852 did indeed come with arrowhead dials and the spelling of 'chronometer'.
However, 2852s had lyre shared lugs not straight lugs as on the watch in the advert.
(I've pasted the link because the info is so bad folks might want to avoid the seller altogether)

The case looks like a late 60s 168.010 that only came with a flat dial (as opposed to dome dial)
So it is a put together watch.

So, you need to familiarise yourself with the different case references and which dials those references came with - this will make it easier for you to know when someone is having you on.

BTW the case is in incredibly poor condition (there are no stars at all on the medallion!)
The price of the watches you are looking at is going up but the actual value is going down.
This is a parts watch - probably worth $200-300, for the movement (assuming it is a constellation movt) and a dodgy dial.

Hope that helps

I might be a party pooper but I reported the AD for labelling the watch as "Very-good" while featuring all these problems. The AD has been suspended by CH24 and the seller informed.

I think it is just fair if dealers start doing their own research (I am hoping he is in good faith) and not fool the first Omega enthusiast which ignores the existence of all these issues..

 

[Peemacgee]

ecarpino

I might be a party pooper but I reported the AD for labelling the watch as "Very-good" while featuring all these problems. The AD has been suspended by CH24 and the seller informed.

I think it is just fair if dealers start doing their own research (I am hoping he is in good faith) and not fool the first Omega enthusiast which ignores the existence of all these issues..

I don’t think that is an unreasonable thing to do.

Dealers can’t know the ins and outs of every watch they sell but the information in the advert was misleading at best and duplicitous at worst.

They knew enough to cite a 2852 reference but not enough to check if the watch is a 2852?

They’re selling a watch for $3660+$99 p&p but haven’t had the back off ? (where they can see the reference)

You did right IMHO.

 

[blopkinz]

gbesq

blopkinz,

While I understand your desire to own an authentic vintage Constellation in collectible condition, I think that you would benefit from more time researching and less time searching. In other words, I don't think that you've amassed enough knowledge yet to be able to spot a good vintage example from among the much larger universe of fakes, frankens and examples that have seen better days. In short, watch videos (the Omega Enthusiast videos on YouTube are excellent), read everything you can (start with this: https://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/) and just hang out here on OF for awhile and avail yourself of all the threads on vintage Constellations. We will, of course, help you with your selection of a watch, but you really need to learn more before you go shopping. Vintage watch collecting is a minefield and knowledge is your best friend. Just my two cents.

Thank-you for all of your help! I am really in the thrill of the chase, that's no doubt. I'm on the prowl for a constie gilt dial.

@gbesq I took away a ton of knowledge from over the weekend and yesterday here, but I don't quite have the eye for intricacies as I should - art has never been a forte' of mine, and for me it's hard to spot misalignment - I've found a couple so far that I am investigating...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1558262271...m1h+ofCAkMW/jqKy+iFWcaaQ==|tkp:Bk9SR5rQsLrsYg

https://www.coolvintagewatches.com/omega/mg9-3jx2r-9catp-585ra-6xher-7hpca-jtctw

It's just... hard to find.. :\

 

[blopkinz]

I appreciate all of you! 😀

 

[Davidt]

Bear in mind that every few people develop an eye for vintage watches and dial issues over a period of days and weeks. It’s months and years.

Also, the hunt is part of the fun. Very few collectors identify a vintage watch they’d like to add and then source one a week or two later. Personally I usually have a number of references I’m keeping half an eye out for and when they appear - boom. Go after them hard because if they deals good, it’ll be gone in a matter of hours.

1. Good condition
2. Good price
3. Good availability.

Pick two of the above. You have to be incredibly lucky to get all three.

 

[blopkinz]

Okay, so what about this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155796622734?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110013&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIMRXI&ao=1&asc=256140&meid=7827e685a50a4f64aebd5f8fe5002457&pid=101196&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=285132665530&itm=155796622734&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=4429486&algv=SimrxiVIDwebATF2V1WithFeedExperience&_trksid=p4429486.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum:1557966227347827e685a50a4f64aebd5f8fe5002457|enc:AQAIAAABAOaQSSBzo1nobHfvY8Fmx5EvfwRZ40%2Bm6e2dF1ZU%2FJ0lfskwWDtXzn6u6xLrpzikSBpDBSO%2FAm9beeVKLAyK9cvenvdHTxPNCw%2FYjiynfGJk46e84JUoJQBFwcfmk%2BABBka%2BduqsK1mC2lJSxCDj%2Bzke860UZg5dRRRV9RCBrq6ySR%2FyYeSBYCPx6EI3IRzgW2lGd7HPirMN%2Fv%2FH7tLS6Y66u%2BsM2SdnSP%2F61gieroezpkuYUKywy%2BRN3RNNo3uzv1AYcsEJZdQBYNCr9LM1F3fn%2BtaOgVLGA10K18qoDWwXGqCKVaW1UE4aQYYsDyUeZP7qrmSmEzRTUa4owpPPRzQ%3D|ampid😜L_CLK|clp:4429486

It seems to pass my reference testing and it looks good to me - test my id skills, at this point I am just seeing how I do... I took a look at the learning how to fish guide

 

[TimeODanaos]

Dear @blopkinz , welcome aboard and thanks for bringing your enthusiasm, it's great. But don't forget to look at the back of your Connie (sic), because that beautiful medallion should be part of the joy of having such a watch. The last three examples you have linked (perhaps sparing us all the pictures was kindly meant, but remember, themz the rules) don't really generate that joy somehow. Eight stars in distinctive relief is what you want. Good luck in your hunt!

 

[gbesq]

And keep in mind that 9 out 10 black dialed vintage Constellations are redials.