Are these automatic pie pan Geneve models with cross hairs rare? I normally see them a lot plainer and not pie pan.

 

Well, it's not a pie pan! If you look closely the dial is curved, and not 12 sided as in true pie pan constellations?

However, the dial is a nice one, with some signs of gentle patina, and it's a nice old 1960s Geneva

I would give it a service, change the crystal ( or clean it with poly watch) , and wear on a nice lizard brown leather strap

Enjoy

 

Apologies re. pie pan, I always thought that if the seconds markers were not at the extreme edge of the dial and instead at the edge of the curve it was a pie pan, I've learned something here, thanks

 

No problem. May well be worth taking a few more photos of your watch, from different angles. The way to date fairly accurately is to remove the case back - inside you will see the reference number, the serial number, and the caliber ( movement design)

These are nice watches, and Geneva was placed a high tier watch in the Omega stable back then

 

Cheers Sherbie, I did that already .... case no is 14702 SC 61, and serial no. is 19972442 dating it to 1962.

 

I'm going to quibble with sherbie on two issues. First, so-called pie-pan dials were used by a number of manufacturers, not just Omega, and they are not defined by how they were employed on Constellations. The real defining characteristic is that the outer ring angles downwards, and it is difficult to tell whether or not that is the case with the subject watch. I suspect that it is a pie-pan.

Secondly, while the Genève line was top-tier in the '50s, many (if not most) collectors refer mainly, if not exclusively, to the manual-wind models as having fallen into that category. Having said that, the early Genève automatics, like the one shown, were undoubtedly of good quality, and far superior to the later and sadly degraded models of the same name.

 

Pie-pan in Omega world only refers to dials with the 12 sided minute/second ring. Each of the 12 sides is a straight edge which this dial does not have. The whole chapter ring on this dial is a circle, not 12 sided, so it's not a pie-pan in Omega universe. In vintage pre-quartz Omega world, only a couple of Seamaster models have a pie-pan dial beside Constellations.

 

Rolex had pie pan dials on some of their DateJust - not 12 sided, but they did have a distinct crisp edge then a drop off out to the edge of the dial.

That particular Geneve is what most eBay sellers call a pie pan because of the ring under the indices / markers. As mentioned above a few times, it's not a true Omega 12 sided pie pan.

 

Here's an IWC ref 666AD Ingenieur pie-pan from around 1960:



and a Tissot:



and do Omega collectors not consider this (round, not 12 sided) example to be a pie-pan dial?

 

No, with regards to the constellation above, i dont consider this to be a pie pan - its a dome dialed constellation.

There are nomdistinct edges!

Ps - its also a dog - with a hideous redial, wrong font, star is crooked etc

 

A dome dial? And the distinctions between it and the 12-sided dials are…?

Non-distinct edges? The edges, like those of the Tissot and IWC above, are plenty distinct – hence the expression "pie-pan". In fact, speaking of distinctions, there is a clear distinction between the three dials that I have shown above and a "dome" dial, as the latter would have a smooth curve and would not appear to be broken into distinct inner circles and outer rings.

 

Would you consider my Seamaster to be a Pie-Pan dial?

 

I would need to see a photo of it on an angle, as it is not enough for the inner circle and outer track to be designed and executed differently in terms of color or finish, etc.

The sole, defining criterion of a pie-pan dial, in my view, is that the outer track dips down and away from the inner circle, as is the case in all three of the examples that I provided above.

In contrast, this one of Steve G's is not a pie-pan, as you can see that the dial lacks the defining characteristic:

 

Let me try to get at the problem from a slightly different direction. There is not doubt that the expression "pie-pan" has long been used to describe dials from many different manufacturers, and that they come in many different variations. So the only question is whether or not within the context of vintage Omegas, it is used exclusively to refer to the 12 sided Connies, or whether there are also Omega pie-pan dials other than that distinctive version.

 

This one is tricky because of the textured dial and distortion due to the crystal, but it does look as though it could be a pie-pan:



and another interesting textured example:

 

Here's a better scan. The outer track definitely dips down and away from the inner circle.

 

This is a badly done redial. It appears to have been a true 12 sided pie-pan dial before redial, but now with an incorrect circle minute ring.

 

@MikiJ

Well, if it dips down and away, then it's a pie-pan in my book. Again, that has long been the essential criterion for labeling dials from other manufacturers as "pie-pan", and while I appreciate that a high percentage of Omega pie-pan models are the 12-sided Connies, perhaps that characteristic is just very strongly associated with them in the minds of Omega-centric collectors.

 

That's fine, but the other Omegas that I have shown are not, are they? And what about Miki's?

 

It doesn't matter what piepan dials from other brands look like, for Omegas, it does contain a distinct 12 straight edges for the minute ring. These edges are also the edges of 12 flat sides beyond the minute rings.

The other Omega examples you posted all don't have the 12 straight edges or 12 flat sides. All have a pretty much continuous convex shape, hence they're called dome dials. They don't have the same look as piepan dials from other brands either.