OMEGA Constellation “Pie Pan” ref. 168.004 SS Automatic cal. 561 Date

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I have been collecting vintage Omega for about 4-5 years now, it is all a blur at my age. High up on my list was a “Pie Pan” with 500 series works. However, when I would enjoy the spectacular examples shown in OF I wondered if I would ever be able to locate, or afford, one that approached the quality of those I routinely viewed on this forum. I kept looking and I had narrowed my quest down to a few that fit what struck a chord with me. A sweet dial was utmost in my requirements, but I had also refined my wish list to wanting one with the “Round” case. And since I didn’t own one, I was leaning towards a cal. 561. I already have a dome dialed “Dogleg”, and because my wrists are sort of large I thought the extra millimeter or so of this “Round” would work well. There are other references of the “Round” that are very similar. What differentiates the 168.004 from the others is the almost invisible crown, and the somewhat more detailed lugs. The under facets on these lugs remind me of the crisp elements on the “Dog Leg”.

Utilizing all the sage advice I have gathered on OF, I had found several of this reference. I could choose from the sharply defined pie pan, or this one, with the lower, rounder interpretation. All things being equal, I chose this one. To me, it recalls the earliest dials, particularly since it has something of a sectored vibe to it. Additionally, it has the onyx inlays in the furniture, which the others did not. And from the images provided it really didn’t appear to have ever seen a polishing wheel. I was somewhat dissuaded by the “cyclops” on the crystal, but when I actually handled it I learned that the magnifier is on the underside…and it has the Omega symbol in the center. The final determinator for me was this example came with the nice Omega box.

So now it is mine, and I have hardly stopped admiring it. I still massively enjoy those “next level” Connies that are on OF, but for now this itch is scratched. I did have to add a number of links from a very similar bracelet reference, and for sure I am looking for the correct links to substitute, when I acquire them. On that note, this arrived with a 1503 with 72 endlinks. My data shows that initially this ref was delivered with the 1037/522 combo. The links I added were from a donor 1037. I could have gone either way, 1037 with 1503 added, or vice versa. I stayed with the 1503 for a couple of reasons. First, I had read an opinion from a far more seasoned OF collector than myself that they felt the 1503 suited the flatter layout of the “Round” case, and I concur. And secondly because though it works either way, the 1307 clasp side links are just a tiny fraction smaller, an IMHO they look better at the tail end. As an aside, it didn’t appear that the bracelet had been off the case in decades….the spring bars were totally green, and I had to resort to a very fine blade on my jewelers saw to remove the bracelet.

This “Connie” contains a nice Omega caliber 561 automatic 24 Jewel “date” movement. It has nice plating and minimal decoration, adjusted in five positions, and signed. This 19800 bph movement will be jumping to the head of the line for service. It was tested on the Timegrapher in the dial up position and delivered +1/-4 seconds per day; a balance wheel amplitude at full wind of 192 degrees; and a beat error of 0.0 milliseconds. The amplitude and shot out gasket suggest to me that it has not seen a service for some time, so wrist time will be seldom.
Spec sheet:
Omega ref 168.004 ss auto cal 561 date non-quickset
Width w/o Crown: 35.55 mm
Length: 40.00 mm
Depth: 10.15 mm w/crystal
Lug Width: 18.00 mm
Crystal: 31.45Dia mm, in watch. Hesalite, signed
Crown: 3.65Dia mm, signed
Case Back Diameter: 30.12 mm
Case Back Thread OD: 29.85 mm
Clasp Width: 11.95 mm, signed

Inside case back inscription: Omega symbol and Omega Watch Company, inside triangle; Fab Suisse; Swiss Made; Acier Inoxydable; ST168.004; “KB”, inside an arched box
Engraving on outside case back: embossed Observatory w/8 stars
Movement: cal. 561 24 jewel Automatic, 19800 bph, adjusted to five positions
Engraving on Movement: Adjusted to Five Positions and Temperature; Twenty-Four 24 Jewels; the number “1” inside the Omega symbol; Omega Watch Co engraved on Rotor; serial number
Timegrapher 1900 readings: +1/-4 seconds a day; 192 degrees of amplitude; 0.0 milliseconds of beat error; 49 degrees lift angle
 
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Congratulations I am glad your quest has ended! Mine is just beginning I am looking for same/similar and I have concerns my wrist is to big. Enjoy the wrist time!
 
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Congratulations @gmmy775
A very nice watch and a good write up.

A couple of things to add to your description that you might not have noticed.
Your watch has the brickwork medallion that appears on non- precious metal .010s and later .004s.
The bezel on your watch is the wider style (more akin to the dogleg) the earlier .004s have a stronger edge facet on the bezel.
This style likely gives the watch more wrist presence.

The crown is one of the two replacements available - yours is the rounded end type.
Finally, the box is for an earlier Constellation and is much sort after, especially as it has its insert meant to take a leather strap.
If you could find an original correct box with the spring collar thingy you would be able to use it with the bracelet.
 
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Congratulations I am glad your quest has ended! Mine is just beginning I am looking for same/similar and I have concerns my wrist is to big. Enjoy the wrist time!
Hi Murph39

I recently saw another one of these, and a similar one, in Japan. I almost bought the second one, but the box and bracelet of the one I chose made the decision for me, though it was a couple hundred more. With tax and $55 duty I am in around 1600. I have an 8.5 inch wrist, so the wrist size thing is always an issue, particularly from Japan. In this case I already had a very similar reference (the difference is one is VERY slightly flatter and squarer, side by side). I was able to use some of the tail links from the second BOR to get a fit. I have just become accustomed to getting the watch and then hunting down the links. They're generally from 60-100 apiece, and sometimes it is more economical to just pop 300 for a whole bracelet and use the links when needed. Good luck!!!

jimmy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285259133276

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266621808959
 
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Posts
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Congratulations @gmmy775
A very nice watch and a good write up.

A couple of things to add to your description that you might not have noticed.
Your watch has the brickwork medallion that appears on non- precious metal .010s and later .004s.
The bezel on your watch is the wider style (more akin to the dogleg) the earlier .004s have a stronger edge facet on the bezel.
This style likely gives the watch more wrist presence.

The crown is one of the two replacements available - yours is the rounded end type.
Finally, the box is for an earlier Constellation and is much sort after, especially as it has its insert meant to take a leather strap.
If you could find an original correct box with the spring collar thingy you would be able to use it with the bracelet.
Hi Peemacgee,

Lots of valuable info in your message! I am trying to digest it all, so I will have a question or two. Question one: What makes this a "brickwork" medallion, the stippled background? Question 2: Certainly did not know that about the box. Now that you mention it, the script looks like that of the first Constellation, the reference of which I do not know offhand. Of course I would like to have the correct box for this Connie, and now I will probably be looking for the model that this box was intended for. It does have the strap insert you mentioned, and a leather pad as well. Image attached.
Question 3: Would you have an image of the crown that should be on this watch? I certainly am willing to swap it out and have a spare in the Omega drawer. Finally, I also did not know that the 168.004 had two different bezels. This one certainly creates the illusion of a larger watch. It is only a mm more in diameter than my 167.005 dogleg, but next to each other it definitely has more presence. I should do a side-by-side comparison. You certainly do know the fine details of these iconic pieces---I should have you on speed dial! (smile). Thank you.

jimmy
 
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Hi Peemacgee,

Lots of valuable info in your message! I am trying to digest it all, so I will have a question or two. Question one: What makes this a "brickwork" medallion, the stippled background? Question 2: Certainly did not know that about the box. Now that you mention it, the script looks like that of the first Constellation, the reference of which I do not know offhand. Of course I would like to have the correct box for this Connie, and now I will probably be looking for the model that this box was intended for. It does have the strap insert you mentioned, and a leather pad as well. Image attached.
Question 3: Would you have an image of the crown that should be on this watch? I certainly am willing to swap it out and have a spare in the Omega drawer. Finally, I also did not know that the 168.004 had two different bezels. This one certainly creates the illusion of a larger watch. It is only a mm more in diameter than my 167.005 dogleg, but next to each other it definitely has more presence. I should do a side-by-side comparison. You certainly do know the fine details of these iconic pieces---I should have you on speed dial! (smile). Thank you.

jimmy
Congratulations @gmmy775
A very nice watch and a good write up.

A couple of things to add to your description that you might not have noticed.
Your watch has the brickwork medallion that appears on non- precious metal .010s and later .004s.
The bezel on your watch is the wider style (more akin to the dogleg) the earlier .004s have a stronger edge facet on the bezel.
This style likely gives the watch more wrist presence.

The crown is one of the two replacements available - yours is the rounded end type.
Finally, the box is for an earlier Constellation and is much sort after, especially as it has its insert meant to take a leather strap.
If you could find an original correct box with the spring collar thingy you would be able to use it with the bracelet.
ps. I get the "brickwork" reference now
 
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Hi Jimmy
The crown on an .004 should be almost entirely hidden.
Unfortunately these crowns are no longer available.
Here are a couple of pics to answer some of your questions.

Crown


Medallion with and without brickwork (both .004s)
Also shows rear view of crown.


Correct style box for the reference
 
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Hi Jimmy
The crown on an .004 should be almost entirely hidden.
Unfortunately these crowns are no longer available.
Here are a couple of pics to answer some of your questions.

Crown


Medallion with and without brickwork (both .004s)
Also shows rear view of crown.


Correct style box for the reference
 
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348
Likes
343
Hi Peemacgee

How cool are you! Now that I see the crown, I do recall that the original data I was referencing mentioned that the crown was almost invisible. I will still try to find one, though probably to no avail. I had figured out the "brickwork' reference, but seeing actual photos in comparison is the ultimate answer. Now I can look at all my Constellations and determine which observatory that have. No substitute for having drawers full of vintage Connies and boxes! The side-by-side of the two bezels also is a lesson I shall not forget. Thanks a bunch. Here is a side-by-side of the 168.004 and the 167.005. I am trying to illustrate that (to me) the "round" case appears in the flesh to be larger than the single mm would suggest. Not sure I succeeded.

I am adding the second shot for a couple of reasons. First, all five of these watches have a case width within 2mm of each other, but the 165.067 Seamaster looks somewhat larger. Secondly, I set all four of these Constellations in the early morning of the 13th. Three have been serviced, but I have not sent the 168.004 out yet. Striking to me that even though it does well on the timegrapher, overall it has lost several minutes to the other three. I do recall that the ".004" had abysmal amplitude. So I have to deduce that even with a good seconds per day, the low amplitude affects the performance in ways that I do not understand.

Once again, thanks for your expert observations and empirical knowledge.

jimmy
 
Posts
14
Likes
7
Hi Murph39

I recently saw another one of these, and a similar one, in Japan. I almost bought the second one, but the box and bracelet of the one I chose made the decision for me, though it was a couple hundred more. With tax and $55 duty I am in around 1600. I have an 8.5 inch wrist, so the wrist size thing is always an issue, particularly from Japan. In this case I already had a very similar reference (the difference is one is VERY slightly flatter and squarer, side by side). I was able to use some of the tail links from the second BOR to get a fit. I have just become accustomed to getting the watch and then hunting down the links. They're generally from 60-100 apiece, and sometimes it is more economical to just pop 300 for a whole bracelet and use the links when needed. Good luck!!!

jimmy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285259133276

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266621808959
Thank you for responding! That watch you posted was a real looker!! I have seen the 2-linked you sent I have also seen what look like really nice watches in the UK posted on eBay. That all being said I am very skeptical about buying from eBay especially at this point in my knoe=wledge journey. I mean I like what I see but is it authentic is it a frankenwatch at this point I just don't know and after reading the postings on this site about eBay's so called authenticity check I am even more wary. Don't get me wrong if I have confidence and knowledge about what I'm looking at I have no trouble pulling the trigger. I have purchased plenty of stuff from eBay but nothing outside the US
Hi Peemacgee

How cool are you! Now that I see the crown, I do recall that the original data I was referencing mentioned that the crown was almost invisible. I will still try to find one, though probably to no avail. I had figured out the "brickwork' reference, but seeing actual photos in comparison is the ultimate answer. Now I can look at all my Constellations and determine which observatory that have. No substitute for having drawers full of vintage Connies and boxes! The side-by-side of the two bezels also is a lesson I shall not forget. Thanks a bunch. Here is a side-by-side of the 168.004 and the 167.005. I am trying to illustrate that (to me) the "round" case appears in the flesh to be larger than the single mm would suggest. Not sure I succeeded.

I am adding the second shot for a couple of reasons. First, all five of these watches have a case width within 2mm of each other, but the 165.067 Seamaster looks somewhat larger. Secondly, I set all four of these Constellations in the early morning of the 13th. Three have been serviced, but I have not sent the 168.004 out yet. Striking to me that even though it does well on the timegrapher, overall it has lost several minutes to the other three. I do recall that the ".004" had abysmal amplitude. So I have to deduce that even with a good seconds per day, the low amplitude affects the performance in ways that I do not understand.

Once again, thanks for your expert observations and empirical knowledge.

jimmy
very tasty grouping I must say!!
 
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Posts
348
Likes
343
Thank you for responding! That watch you posted was a real looker!! I have seen the 2-linked you sent I have also seen what look like really nice watches in the UK posted on eBay. That all being said I am very skeptical about buying from eBay especially at this point in my knoe=wledge journey. I mean I like what I see but is it authentic is it a frankenwatch at this point I just don't know and after reading the postings on this site about eBay's so called authenticity check I am even more wary. Don't get me wrong if I have confidence and knowledge about what I'm looking at I have no trouble pulling the trigger. I have purchased plenty of stuff from eBay but nothing outside the US

very tasty grouping I must say!!
Hi Murph39

The reason that I included those two listings is because I have purchased over a dozen watches from that seller. I have not had a single authenticity issue with them. Of course, a crown or crystal may have been replaced during service, but no franken stuff from this gentlemanly outfit. And returns are as easy as saying, "it wasn't what I hoped for". Not only are the prices hard to beat, the watches are always better than the description, and arrive in 2-4 days from pulling the trigger. The 165.067 Seamaster on the left in the group of 4 was the first Omega I bought from this seller, about five-six years ago. And the 168.004 Connie was the most recent, just about a month ago. I used to think it was best to keep this secret to myself, so an item I was watching wouldn't get bought out from under me. Now, with a few years participating in the Omega Forum, I have grown to realize we are all better steering each other towards successful acquisitions. Ya can't buy them all! I am reminded of a thread I read today about a member wishing for an 18K Deluxe Constellation. Peemacgee and cristos71 engaged and now he is over the moon with his grail Connie. Payin it forward, right. Take care, and good luck.

jimmy