Does anybody have any tips for rotating the regulator boot so I can remove the balance from the cock? There is no screw slot on the top or bottom and I cannot seem to rotate it with a tweezer. I'm sure there is something that I am missing here, but I've never seen one without a screw slot. Or maybe I have and I simply turned it, but I'm stumped.

I didn't post an image as I didn't think it was necessary, but if anybody would like I can do so.

I'm considering just dipping the entire balance assembly and being done with it as I cannot think of anything else. I could try a bit of oil on top where it is supposed to rotate. Maybe lubricating it will help.

 

A "regulator boot?" The term is meaningless to me, I am afraid. Picture please?

 

Some have a hole in them that you can use a an oiler to turn the boot. If not, then you have to use tweezers to do it.

You talk about "dipping the entire balance" so what exactly is it you are doing? Cleaning the movement? If so, why would you remove the balance for that?

I have no idea what you skill/experience level is, or what equipment you have, so let me know what you are doing and I'll try to help...

Cheers, Al

 

Yes I am cleaning the movement. I like to remove the balance from the cock to clean the pivots. The stud has to be released and the last coil freed from the regulator, but the boot is being especially stubborn. The "boot" I am referring is a single L shaped piece which when rotated, holds the hairspring between it and a single regulator pin. I could just put the entire assembly in the ultrasonic without separating the balance and hairspring from the cock, or "dip the entire balance" assembly in One Dip or lighter fluid. But there is often stubborn oil residue which really requires manual cleaning, just like the jewels need to be pegged manually.

I do see this mysterious hole. I'm sorry I should have posted an image, but I figured that a regulator curb pin and boot is pretty self explanatory and my camera battery was dead. Next time I won't be so lazy. I will have to try this other technique with a fine screwdriver or oiler because it would not budge with a tweezer.

 

I know what a regulator boot is of course...I don't need an image...

The hole is there for a reason, so use that to turn the boot. You can also clean the movement with the balance in place as that is common practice. Remove the jewels for the shock setting, and clean away. Not sure if you are just using an ultrasonic tank or a proper watch cleaning machine with ultrasonic, but either way this is how it's done typically.

Cheers, Al

 

There may be differences in terminology, but the "boot" is sometimes referred to as a "gate". As Archer has mentioned, that gate should have a lateral hole drilled through it. If the gate is stubborn (DO NOT OIL IT), anything that will fit through that hole will likely break off. IIRC, some Omegas have a screw, the head of which shows on the regulator tail, and that screw can be used to turn the gate. Failing that, a fine oiler might be used to move the curb pin aside just enough to allow the hairspring to be taken out. Have you had success with One-Dip cleaning anything? I am afraid that I have no confidence whatsoever in dip and swish cleaning methods!

 

I've never heard of it referred to as the gate. I actually meant oil the riveted part on top of the regulator. This is what spins and there is friction here (I think, I have to look at it closely again). I would like to own a something like an L &R cleaning machine, but I don't have the space to keep it right now, so I have a $100 ultrasonic which works really well. I just can't put plated bridge plates in because it will strip it off (like the Omega I'm currently working on).

I have one dip which I tried once, but I like using lighter fluid. I know "dip and swish" methods are not that great, which is why I wanted to take apart the balance. I would rather not bend the curb pin to pull out the hairspring. The 50x and 60x series Omegas have the screw on top of the regulator to turn the boot. This does not. I'm going away for the weekend, but when I return I'm going to see if I can turn it using the hole, but if tweezers didn't work I'm not sure this will.

 

Do you think this is an unnecessary step? I thought it was just the way it was done. Also, a lot of watches work on do not have shock protection and the only way to get at the cap jewels is to disassemble everything. If you think removing the balance when there is an Incabloc system is a waste of time I will be happy not to do it. I was under the impression that in doing so you squeeze a few more degrees of amplitude. The jewels need to be manually pegged so I thought a similar logic applied here.

I still haven't tried to rotate the gate. I'm waiting for the replacement mainspring to come in. I thought this was interesting. Somebody installed a manual wind mainspring for this bumper movement. They used another thicker piece of spring against the barrel wall and used this to anchor the tongue against. The outer wall was greased as if it was supposed to slip. Whether or not it did I have no idea.

 

Removing the shock resistant jewels and the retainer springs, or simply re-locking the retainer springs so they are not damaged, then cleaning the balance complete in place, in the movement, is an acceptable practise. As to pegging the hole jewels? With the correct solutions and cleaning equipment, I have found this procedure as unnecessary. Dipping parts in One-Dip and expecting the parts to be scrupulously clean, to me, is not acceptable practise. It does not remove hardened, congealed lubricants. Same goes with kerosene and/or lighter fluid. Mind you, after 60 years of pursuing this trade, I am somewhat set in my ways.

 

60 years, wow! Bless you. It's safe to say anything you say is backed by some experience. So if the movement is being cleaned within an acceptable amount of time from the last service, and the remaining oil has not turned to glue, it's okay to simply clean the balance in place? If however there is hardened oil remnants it might be a good idea to remove the balance for manual cleaning. Does this sound like a good theorem?

 

This is how balances are cleaned by brands in service centers...jewels removed and the balance back on the main plate:



Then everything goes into the baskets of the cleaning machine and it's all cleaned at once:



It's not just an acceptable practice, but how pretty much every brand training session I've been to teaches, how every school teaches, etc.

I always put the balance back on the plate for cleaning, even on watches with fixed cap jewels. I've never had a pivot break if that is a concern for you (don't think it will be if you are just using an ultrasonic tank though, but even in an automated cleaning machine it's not a problem).

For watches with shock protection, the cap jewels are placed in a small basket for cleaning, and cleaned with the rest of the parts. I do clean the cap jewel surface and peg the hole jewel after cleaning in the machine - I will disagree with Canuck here - not wanting to argue about but I always peg the jewels. For watches with fixed jewels, yes of course the balance is removed from the cock, jewels removed, and cleaned, but on those watches the primary reason for running the balance through the cleaning machine is to clean the balance itself, not the jewels necessarily.

I personally never use One Dip - it's not healthy for you and pretty much ineffective. If something at the bench needs cleaning for some reason, it goes back in the cleaning machine.

And the mainspring you saw is pretty normal for this age of watch - it's a detached bridle. These were pretty common in this era, so it's not some jury rigged thing, but the way they came from the factory back then (I have even seen the bridles for sale still at places like Jules Borel). Of course you can just replace it with a modern spring with an attached bridle.

Cheers, Al

 

I find it is occasionally necessary to peg jewels. Particularly on antiques that haven't been serviced for many decades. Many of these watches were last lubricated with oils that are inferior to modern oils. When I run into these, I use pegwood, but I also use pith wood the make certain congealed oils are removed from pivots and pinions. Once in a while it is necessary to go through this more than once! I have been at this trade for a long time. I find the quality of the pegwood available today is a bother to use, compared to what was available many decades ago. So I use it only when absolutely essential. I do as Al does. If grunge survives the cleaning process, I peg it and clean it again, in the cleaning machine. Al and I treat jewels in shock proof settings differently. He pegs them, I don't. I don't feel that there is a right or wrong, here. It is up to the individual to decide what works for them.

 

I clean with the pallet fork assembled . Is that stupid or wrong ? Any downsides with that ? Remove it after the cleaning instead of before . I also remove the jewels on the balance.

 

I have no idea what kind of cleaning machine you have, but I would not leave the balance and pallet fork on the watch while cleaning - just remove the fork and put it in a smaller basket...

 

Okey .I will do next time .I use a ultrasonic bath .

 

This is a technique that I would like to use with the balance secured to the plate while cleaning. However, I don't have a true watch cleaning machine, just an ultrasonic. If I run the plates through my ultrasonic the finish flakes off and winds up on the bottom of the jars of chemicals. So I peg the jewels, scrub the plates with a brush and lighter fluid, and then soak the plates in lighter fluid. However this alone I do not think will be enough to clean the pivots, hence the reason for wanting to disassemble the balance.

The detached bridle was more than twice the thickness of the mainspring- 0.21mm vs 0.1mm. This is normal?