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Omega Cal. 23.4. How should original dial look like?

  1. laikrodukas Jun 30, 2014

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    Hello,

    I purchased this Omega. It has awfully refinished dial.
    I want it redialed to look as close to original as possible
    Does anyone know how should original look like?
    I have only found some similar ones

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. laikrodukas Jun 30, 2014

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    These are somewhat silimar looking.
    Is the first one what it should look like? Hands are the same but case is different

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jun 30, 2014

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    What if I told you that the dial was likely original Omega?

    [​IMG]

    I'm not quite sure about the case. I would need to see pictures of the inside looking for an Omega logo and metal hallmarks. Are you sure that the movement is the 23.7, or could it be the 26.5 as per the above illustration?

    Please don't rush to redial. So much character there.
    gatorcpa
     
  4. laikrodukas Jun 30, 2014

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    Redial is the last thing todo. And only if the current one is a bad redial.
    Original dial will never be touched until I own this watch.

    The one in Your photo is Cal. 26.5 and too small to see if omega logo is so much uncentered as in mine one.
    Mine is 23.4
    [​IMG]

    The case:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jun 30, 2014

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    OK, more clues. Yours is a UK model and my catalog is Swedish. So that explains the difference in the case.

    I agree, movement looks like cal. 23,4. If someone knows the British hallmark dating system and can confirm when the case is made you should be able to tell if the movement and case are contemporary to each other.

    They didn't have as much precision with dial printing as you might think back then. The key for me is the split wording of "Swiss Made". That would be very hard to reproduce. Also, the radial printing of the subseconds dial is spot on:

    [​IMG]

    Dial could be in better condition, but IMO it is original, as is the case.

    Congratulations on a nice find.
    gatorcpa

    EDIT - Just found this website:

    http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilverhallmarksBIR.html

    Anchor is for Birmingham, UK and the capital "N" is for 1937. Based on Omega's serial number chart, the movement dates from around 1937. The catalog I posted above with the same dial is also 1937. I think it's a 3-way match.
     
  6. laikrodukas Jun 30, 2014

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  7. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jun 30, 2014

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    You have to understand that the view on the cross hair dial may be affected by camera angles. It's really impossible to say anything unless the watch is in your hand. In addition, a lot of this early dial printing was done by hand, not laser guided machinery like today.

    Then as now, humans are not perfect.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
  8. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Jun 30, 2014

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    Hi,

    Your Watch could be a ref 152 (here in a british catalog - with Denison case - from around 1935) :

    [​IMG]
    As nearly all references of that period, Omega probably used different dials on this model.

    It would be surprising that Omega distributed a dial with such a miscentering mistake, but after all error is human. If it can be the case on a raised index dial, I doubt that it can be an optical illusion on a painted dial.

    Now in addition to Gator's pictures, here are a couple of details of a 1937 catalog, showing some period dials identical to the one of your watch, none of them on a 23.4, there were none shown in my two 1937 catalogs.

    First on a 23.7 because it is the closest to 23.4 in size and with a small second :
    [​IMG]
    Then on 26.5 SOB. The logo even looks miscentered on the filenios! :


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Other styles on 26.5 :

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    There is a wide diversity in dials at this period, as always with Omega, I could multiply catalog examples. I think that there is a great chance that your dial was redone and it is in poor condition. Redoing it will however probably not be satisfactory, I would suggest that you try to find a period correct dial. Although 23.4 non SC tend to be difficult to find, it is not imposible, with luck and time, to find a caliber with dial and hands taken out from a golden case that was melted.

    Hope this was useful to you,
     
    JimInOz likes this.
  9. laikrodukas Jul 1, 2014

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    Thank You guys for the help!

    I did some line drawing, it looks like the is too much of misalignings
    [​IMG]
     
  10. laikrodukas Jul 1, 2014

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    I am totally lost now :D

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  11. Modest_Proposal Trying too hard to be one of the cool kids Jul 1, 2014

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  12. mac_omega Jul 1, 2014

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    My first impression was also: original dial

    The dis-centered print of the cross hair is no sign of a re-dial IMO
    As Gator already explained: back in those time printing of dials (and even making of the cases) was not by far as precise as it is today...
    Furthermore they were not produced "in house" but from contractors.
    Obviously this "tolerance" was accepted by Omega - they produced very accurate and reliable movements to put into these "contract" cases/dials combos.
    And were not as picky as collectors are nowadays... sometimes being much to suspicious about minimal variations/aberrations and originality.
    I have been collecting "early vintage" now for many years and I have learned to accept "sloppy work" in former times as a given fact.
    Try to swap case backs (pressure shut) from the 30ies - 40ies (and I guess even some 50ies) from the same reference and you will see what I mean...
    Those products were not produced with CAD - support and hence the "great tolerance" in measurements/fitting.
    just my 2 cents

    erich
     
    JimInOz likes this.
  13. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Jul 1, 2014

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    My gut feeling is that it's original, but the final word has been confirmed by two of the best experts on this generation of Ωs.
     
  14. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 1, 2014

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    I don't know if I would call it the "final" word. All I'm saying is that you can't dismiss the dial entirely based on the position of the cross lines.

    One can't just look at other pictures off the internet that were taken at all sorts of angles, draw lines with a computer and expect that to be a guide. The only way to really determine whether a dial is a redial or not is to examine it with a loupe to see if the printing is sharp and comparible to an example that is known to be genuine. Anything else (including our speculation) is no more than an educated guess.

    There's really nothing to be confused about here.
    gatorcpa
     
    SpikiSpikester and Tire-comedon like this.
  15. Tire-comedon First Globemaster Jul 1, 2014

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    I fully agree and coudn't say better.
     
  16. laikrodukas Jul 2, 2014

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    Looking at other misplaced Omega logo examples I think they first put the logo and O M E G A ( which are misplaced ) and then do the cross lines because cross lines are just about perfect
     
  17. laikrodukas Jul 15, 2014

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    Got it in today
    Keeps good time, +40s/day
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  18. mac_omega Jul 15, 2014

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    Do you think 40 sec is a good result? I am confident that it will do much better after a good service and adjustment - those are reliable movements!
     
  19. laikrodukas Jul 16, 2014

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    I see :) thanks

    Some zoomed images.
    Could this be redial? Does not look like that to me

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  20. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 16, 2014

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    I didn't think it was a redial then, and still think it's original.

    Just not in very good condition.
    gatorcpa