Community Stories

Omega 565 balance issue - stops when tightening the screw

AndGo
Posts
12
Likes
1
Hello everyone,
I’m assembling an Omega 565 movement and I’m facing an issue with the balance installation.


Here’s what happens:


• When the balance and balance bridge are installed, everything looks correct.
• The balance oscillates freely until I fully tighten the balance bridge screw.
• As soon as the screw is tightened, the balance starts to bind and then stops completely.


What I’ve already checked:


Lower jewel: perfect condition, no damage, properly cleaned and lubricated with a very small amount of Moebius 9010.
Upper jewel: also in perfect condition and lubricated the same way.
If I slightly loosen the screw, the balance runs again.


This makes me think the problem is mechanical rather than lubrication-related.


Possible causes I’m considering:


  • Slightly bent balance staff?
  • Balance bridge not sitting perfectly flat?
  • Jewel settings not perfectly aligned?
  • Endshake issue when the bridge is fully tightened?

Has anyone encountered this problem on an Omega 565 before?
Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.


I can post photos or a video below if needed.


Thank you in advance!
 
IMG_0673.mov - 42.1 MB
JimInOz
Posts
17,931
Likes
37,491
Are the cap jewels in the right way?
(Flat side to the pivots)
 
AndGo
Posts
12
Likes
1
JimInOz JimInOz
Are the cap jewels in the right way?
(Flat side to the pivots)
Just to clarify, the oil was applied to the flat side of the jewel, facing the pivots, so the cap jewel orientation should be correct.
 
JimInOz
Posts
17,931
Likes
37,491
Try removing the cap jewel on the balance cock, tighten down the screw and observe the result.


Was the balance running before the movement was disassembled?
 
ErichKeane
Posts
1,975
Likes
2,137
JimInOz JimInOz
Are the cap jewels in the right way?
(Flat side to the pivots)
THIS is always my first thought too 😁 I've done this a few times. Looks in the video at least the top is in the right way...

FIRST: Does this happen when the pallet fork is uninstalled?

SECOND: DID you check shake on the balance?

THIRD: IF you remove a cap jewel or just loosen the spring, does it still stay stopped?

FOURTH: DID you inspect the pivots and stem with a microscope? Most of your questions would be answered if you did that.

Finally: What is the history of this? DID it run and now it doesn't? DID you replace parts?

The fact pattern implies there is SOMETHING rubbing, either the balance staff is wrong/too long/etc, or something else is rubbing.
 
AndGo
Posts
12
Likes
1
JimInOz JimInOz
Try removing the cap jewel on the balance cock, tighten down the screw and observe the result.


Was the balance running before the movement was disassembled?
Before disassembly, the balance was running only face down.
In the face up position it would stop.


I initially thought the problem was old oil contamination, so I completely cleaned the jewels and re-oiled them.


Now, if I remove the cap jewel from the balance cock and fully tighten the balance bridge screw, the balance runs normally.
 
ErichKeane
Posts
1,975
Likes
2,137
AndGo AndGo
Now, if I remove the cap jewel from the balance cock and fully tighten the balance bridge screw, the balance runs normally.

OK, this likely means this is an end-shake problem assuming it still happens if you 'hold' the jewel itself 'down' and the problem is still gone (since taking the cap jewel out means the spring isn't holding the setting down).

Assuming you have inspected the pivots and are sure there isn't a burr/etc, and inspected the jewels and setting (again with a microscope) from the 'inside' to make sure there isn't some FOD/a burr/etc on THAT side, you have to figure out why it is 'too tight'.

Easy thing to check is the end cap jewel on the other side to make sure it is the correct way around.

I'd still suggest testing end shake by pushing GENTLY on the balance to make sure it has a slight up/down space to move. IF it ends up not moving, and there is no filth/etc, you might have to get a jewel press and press one of the two settings slightly 'outwards'.

That said, I'd suspect there is dirt/a burr/etc that you haven't seen yet.
 
Canuck
Posts
15,461
Likes
45,793
Be certain the roller table hasn’t moved down, or the hairspring collet hasn’t moved up. Be certain the pallet cock is properly seated. The balance cock is properly seated, and no litter under the balance cock or on the pillar plate. Correct screw holding the pallet cock, or loose pallet cock screw. Hairspring flat, not cupped down. Hairspring stud not dragging on balance arms. Curb pins not dragging on balance arms. Hairspring properly positioned between the curb pins.
Edited:
 
lenndon
Posts
99
Likes
83
Canuck Canuck
Be certain the roller table hasn’t moved down, or the hairspring collet hasn’t moved up. Be certain the pallet cock is properly seated. The balance cock is properly seated, and no litter under the balance cock or on the pillar plate. Correct screw holding the pallet cock, or loose pallet cock screw. Hairspring flat, not cupped down. Hairspring stud not dragging on balance arms. Curb pins not dragging on balance arms. Hairspring properly positioned between the curb pins.
Good point. I once spend an immense time on a balance assebly, taking it apart several times, only to find out the pallet fork bridge / pallet cock did not sit 100% flat due to some minor damage to one of the screw holes. It was just not on my mind that it could be so simple, since the pallet fork happily jumped over as well. So always worth to check..
 
AndGo
Posts
12
Likes
1
Hi everyone,


Here’s a detailed summary of what I’ve done and the observations so far:


  1. I removed the balance lower jewel (hole jewel) from the plate and the upper jewel (cap jewel) from the balance cock.
  2. I fully disassembled both jewels, cleaned them thoroughly, and reassembled them.
  3. I installed the hole jewel into its metal setting, pressing it fully until it was seated flush, then placed a tiny drop of oil on the cap jewel and reinstalled both jewels into the plate.

After installing the balance without the upper jewel, the movement would not start. The balance seemed to stick on the lower jewel, probably due to excess oil.


While trying to remove the balance for inspection, I may have slightly damaged it, as now the balance rings appear to sit with uneven clearance, and the balance does not have uniform endshake.


Given this, I have a few questions:


  • Is it realistic to try fixing this myself using only two tweezers without prior experience with such delicate assemblies?
  • Or would it be better to practice first on a cheap Chinese balance from AliExpress before attempting more delicate work on the Omega 565?

After that, I reinstalled the jewel into the plate and applied the correct amount of oil (see photos below). I would really appreciate your opinion - does it look correct?


I want to learn safely without risking further damage to the balance. Any advice, especially from those who have worked on the Omega 565, would be extremely helpful.


Thank you in advance!

IMG_0741.webp IMG_0713.webp IMG_0712.webp IMG_0711.webp IMG_0722.webp
 
sheepdoll
Posts
2,838
Likes
4,530
AndGo AndGo
practice first on a cheap Chinese balance from AliExpress
Practice, practice practice.

You might want to first practice with pocket watches and alarm clock hairsprings.

Ideally one should have some in person guidance. There are times where you grip the spring with tweezers. Others where you hold them and use a needle or the outside of closed tweezers to straighten the bend.

Look for the videos by Henry B. Fried. He also wrote a book on the subject and taught watchmaking in New York. At one time his textbook was the bible of watch repair. Now a bit dated it still has a lot to offer.
 
Canuck
Posts
15,461
Likes
45,793
There comes a time when you need more help than we are likely be going to be able to give you, here. Part of learning is to learn when to quit trying!
 
lenndon
Posts
99
Likes
83
Are you sure you only damaged it later on? Because that would perfectly explain why it wouldn't run before.
Personally I think that your hairspring is not that far gone and can quite easily be fixed.
A soft outward bend where the arrow shows should already resolve a lot imo. Then you'll have to see what happends to the "narrow" area where the circle is drawn. Maybe the first bend will also resolve that.
1770795108587.webp
That being said, practicing on a cheap movement or as sheepdoll mentioned: on a pocket watch - might be a good idea. Less is always more with hairsprings. Good luck.
 
Sign up or log in to reply...