Newb here....
2 questions:
1. Is a Seamaster 321 movement identical to a Speedmaster 321 movement?
2. If so why are Seamaster 321 watches currently so much cheaper then Speedmaster 321 watches, especially bearing in mind that as far as I can see more 321's went into Speedmasters, meaning fewer went into Seamasters?

 

Wondered that myself, especially as I’ve just bought a nice and relatively inexpensive 321..

Apart from build (thicker case, bracelets etc) it’s probably the moon thing....

 

The movement is the same. 321 Speedmasters are more popular than Seamasters because of the style of the watch and yes of course the moon-thing. In the same way A Speedmaster Professional 861 costs more than a Mark II even if they have the same 861 movement and are from the same year. Some 321 watches are currently bought for the movement as a donor for a Speedy, this is just the way things go. These days it's prudent to get an Extract from Omega to prove that the movement is original to the type of watch it's in.

 

Thanks guys
But it isn't so easy to determine if a 321 serial number 16xxxxxxxx (for example) was originally in a Speedie or a Seamaster - but the (asking) price difference is significant!
Maybe a lot of the advertised 321 movements are Seamaster derived?

 

There is no way to tell from a serial number, unless an extract of the archive has been ordered from Omega, which links the movement serial number to a watch model from the inhouse Omega archives. My assumption would be a seamaster 321 in a speedmaster would have alot of other signs that it was not all original, as something that trashed the movement would also have affected the dial and hands which would also need to be replaced, and you can normally tell if this has been done. I am not sure anyone on this forum has purchased a watch that appeared all correct and original and did not have a speedmaster movement once the extract was orderd.

That being said, there are a few other options...

The movement is from another manufacturers watch with a Lemania ch27 movement, this is an identical movement to the 321. This movement may or may not be visualy finished like a 321 but it is the same movement. There are some ways to determine this if you do alot of research, but it would be somewhat rare. Ebel, Patek, Lemania and others used this movement or used this movement as a base in watches.

The Patek would stick out like a sore thumb as it is modified, the ebel on the other hand might appear correct with a bridge swap and you did not check all of the areas, again if this happened you would expect to see other signs of a Frankenstein watch.

 

All this complicated by the missing records in Omega's archives for a rather large swath of desirable speedies..

 

No, not necessarily. The differences are slight, but there are differences.

Keep in mind that not all 321's used in Speedmasters are the same either, and the differences go further than what most collectors are aware of.

Like any movement, the 321 has gone through a series of design changes over time - some small, some large.

Cheers, Al

 

That's very interesting. Could you elaborate a little on the differences?

 

Which differences?

If you are asking about Seamaster v Speedmaster, it's primarily in the parts that are activated by the pushers, so items like the pusher stem for the chronograph, and the pusher stem for zero action, operating lever for the hour hammer...

If you are referring to the changes made over time generally, they include things like the coupling clutch bridge, the regulator pointer that are easily seen, but there are others like changes to the balance, pallet bridge, barrel arbor, and even smaller changes where things like heart cams that were once screwed in place and could be exchanged when worn are now not.

 

Thanks, that's interesting. If I understand correctly a 321 movement from a Seamaster and Speedmaster from the same year will only have the pusher stems and maybe the operating lever for the hour hammer which differ?

 

And the incredibly long time it takes to get the Extract in. Will a seller (not linked to omega forums) honor the sale if in 6 months or longer the extract states it is from another model?