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Omega - 1940s 30T2? Bullseye - Frankenwatch?

  1. simon87

    simon87 Oct 6, 2018

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    Hi all,

    New here, but have been looking into vintage timepieces for a couple of years. I randomly visited an antique market in London today, looking for a coffee table... and naturally couldn't help myself with the vintage watches!

    I came across this lovely piece which appears in good condition and works and for an OK price. He said he would do £550, and I would negotiate him down a good degree and probably pay cash.

    In any case, I walked away as he didn't appear to know much about watches and didn't have anything to open the caseback so I could check refs. I cruised by a while later and he had found a penknife and opened the watch for me. I took two photos and have done a bit of research.

    Serial number on movement: 9022932
    Serial number of caseback: 9843744
    Movement Type: it looks like a 30 T2, but being new to this I didn't think to check beneath the balance wheel where the calibres on these old 1930s/1940s era watches is located. In the one photo I took you can see a "0" through the moving balance wheel.

    I did a great deal of google searching and came across an ebay add with an identical dial, which claims it's for the Portuguese military.

    Some additional observations:
    - There are clearly two screws missing in the movement, indicates to me the movement might be in a different case.
    - if one opens the watch and turns it over with faceback up, the movement slips out partly, is this normal?
    - there's some space between the edge of the movement and the case.
    - The caseback has a ring around it, with a slot for he crown, which presses into the back of the watch.
    - additional wording on caseback: "Modele Depose"; "Omega"; "Fab. Suisse"; "Swiss Made"

    Images:
    Face: https://imgur.com/zLAxO8X
    I recommend opening this image in a new tab to see it full size. From a distance it looks like a re-dial for sure, but closer up it actually shows some age.
    Movement & Caseback: https://imgur.com/A18m6oM
    Found an old sale for a different watch with same face, case looks different: https://imgur.com/A18m6oM
    I recommend opening this image in a new tab to see it full size.

    If anyone has more experience with these 1930s/1940s Omegas, any guidance would be appreciated. I absolutely love the look of the watch, but I'm not paying £550 for a bloody Frankenwatch.

    Any thoughts appreciated.

    Best regards,

    Simon

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    NB: the below is not the watch I have seen, but the only example I found for sale
    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Oct 6, 2018
  2. Caliber561

    Caliber561 Oct 6, 2018

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    It looks good from here, but could you bring it a little closer to the camera so we could get a better look?
     
  3. Rochete

    Rochete Oct 6, 2018

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    The two missing screws are for attaching the movement to the case, so the slipping out is "normal" given the circumstances. No big deal, they can be found, or some generic replacement. Movement could be dated around 1939-40.
     
  4. X350 XJR

    X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Oct 6, 2018

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    Screws were not used on this case type, the movement simply sets inside the case back, which snaps into the bezel, nothing mysterious here.

    Really need a much larger clearer photo of the dial to make any call on it.
     
    François Pépin likes this.
  5. mac_omega

    mac_omega Oct 6, 2018

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    From what I can see it looks all original and by the low serial number it must be a cal. 30 (without any T), not a 30 T2

    What to consider: it is a pretty small watch and the ratchet wheel has been awfully ground, but this can be easily replaced. This wheel can be found as a spare.
     
  6. simon87

    simon87 Oct 7, 2018

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    Hi guys, you should be able to open these images, they will get quite a bit bigger. These are the largest I have:
    https://i.imgur.com/zLAxO8X.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/A18m6oM.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/vQK9SKI.jpg
    If they aren't zoomed in automatically, just left click them once with mouse.

    p.s. X350 XJR - on the case, understood, but then why would it have holes for screws if not to be used? Apologies, I'm ever the skeptic!

    I've got the vendors number, do you reckon I call him?
     
    Edited Oct 7, 2018
  7. simon87

    simon87 Oct 7, 2018

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    I'm thinking the comment re the Cal 30 might be on point - albeit I don't see one with this bullseye paint scheme.

    https://www.omegawatches.com/vintage-watches?v_watches_calibre=2988
    https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-other-omega-ck-2098

    Looks like CK2540 case, with hands from CK2098.

    I texted the vendor and he will open the watch up and give me the calibre number under the balance wheel on Tuesday, so that should be helpful.

    Also, this thread looks like a near identical watch: https://omegaforums.net/threads/bullseye-omega-everything-look-ok-here.71918/

    And some similar pieces:
    http://www.omegaenthusiast.com/vintageomega1940s.html
    http://www.omegaenthusiast.com/OME30T2SSBULLSEYEWDOTDFull.html
     
    Edited Oct 7, 2018
  8. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Oct 7, 2018

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    It's good to be skeptical, but the answers to your question are pretty obvious. This movement is used in a variety of case style as I'm sure you have seen in your research, and yes some cases require screws. This one doesn't - if you think it does, then just ask yourself the question "What do those screws attach the movement to in this photo?" and the answer will be apparent....nothing...

    Cheers, Al
     
  9. simon87

    simon87 Oct 7, 2018

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    Cheers, thanks Al.

    I will wait to see what other users think re the dial, and visit the vendor this weekend to have a peek via a loupe before making the decision.

    Best,
    Simon
     
  10. simon87

    simon87 Oct 8, 2018

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    Any further thoughts on the dial following review of the close-up/zoomed images gents? I'd like to avoid it if it's a shirty redial.

    Looks generally OK to me, but the one left corner where the sub-dial meets the outer seems a bit off. Also, top right of sub-dial looks slightly thicker than the left side.

    Many thanks,
    Simon
     
  11. mac_omega

    mac_omega Oct 8, 2018

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    Simon,

    it was wise to join the forum and ask questions before you pull the trigger.

    You have got information which you had requested.

    The watch is all original including the dial - so why are you so hesitant?

    I can assure you that the dial does not look like a restored/reprinted one.

    This is a galvano-sandwich dial, hence the print looks a bit blurry.

    If you have a close look under magnification you can see some loss of the black layer on several spots.

    zLAxO8X.jpg

    Do you think a restorer did this on purpose to mislead potential buyers of the watch?

    To constantly repeat the same questions although you have received answers is like beating a dead horse.

    If you like the look and the small size of the watch and the price is right for you - go for it.

    The movement looks very clean (except the ground ratchet wheel which can be replaced easily).

    This is a good indication that the watch did not have moisture intrusion or was not abused by clumpsy repair trials of a noob "watchtinkerer"
     
    Edited Oct 8, 2018
    François Pépin likes this.
  12. simon87

    simon87 Oct 8, 2018

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    Thanks Mac, appreciate the closer look.

    I was hesitant, as a member on another forum dismissed it very quickly as a re-dial, hence why I reiterated the query. I agree with and follow your line of reasoning. Now to see if I can negotiate the right price!

    Thanks all for the guidance.

    Best regards,
    Simon