Omega 1660324 vs Watch Co Builds & how to tell them apart

And just to be clear — the only thing “old stock” in the Watchco watches is the movement. All the other parts were modern Omega service parts. Nothing “new old stock” about them. In other words, these were not parts manufactured in the 1960s and then sitting around for years until Watchco assembled them. They were manufactured post-1999 at the earliest, cause they use luminova, not tritium.

What do you mean tell them apart? As already noted, they are one and the same. The 1960s watch had the case number 166.024, 166.0324 indicates a modern replacement case ie a so called Watchco build (whether actually made by them or otherwise). An SM300 with a 166.0324 case and Luminova dial, AKA a Watchco, is not an authentic Omega watch in the sense it left a factory in Switzerland all of a piece. Rather they are all assemblages, for better or worse, using newly manufactured spare parts (some as above very different from the originals) with original 1960s movements taken usually from other scrapped Omegas. An extract request without a picture on such a watch is 99%+ likely to result details for another model altogether since the 552 and 565 were widely used across hundreds of Omega models. An extract request with a photo will likely just get a rejection.

That said, as per our resident knowledgable authorised repairer, Omega do allow for conversions between models, so from one POV a Watchco is just a very thorough conversion and in theory at least Omega will still service a Watchco as if it were an all original watch. This is not the case with a fake so there is a difference.

It's best to see Watchcos for what they are, very accurate homage watches using genuine parts which offer something Omega currently do not. The big problem is there are also lots of fake parts of variable quality out there and the movements used will only be as good as their last service.

As mentioned above, a big feature of the Watchco build is that the movements were sourced from a wide range of Omega models, and very likely not old SM300s. A 'put together' mismatch between the original model of the movement and the remainder of parts would be enough to be considered a franken by many. Like finding out your cherished Ed White has a 321 sourced from an old seamaster.

I think the reference is to Victor's creation.

-j

Right. Essentially, the only time a movement serial number would be important, would be if you wanted an extract. I doubt a Watchco with a movement from another model would be worth a whole lot less than a vintage SM300 that had all the parts except the movement changed.


This is a very limited view, and it's a little more complicated than that.

The fact is, under certain circumstances Omega allows watches to be converted - it's written right in their customer service policies:

"It is possible to modify an existing watch type if the result of the modified type will correspond EXACTLY to a watch type of the OMEGA Collection, however without changing the movement type. For limited or numbered series no modifications are allowed."

You can convert a watch that uses a particular movement, to a completely different model that uses the same movement, as long as the conversion is complete - no mixing of parts from different watches.

I converted a number of watches for people, and have discussed this at length with Omega in the past.

What Omega does not allow, is for people to buy up parts, convert a bunch of watches, and make a business out of selling them - exactly what Watchco did, and likely why they lost their access to Omega parts. Omega doesn't want people competing with them for watch sales...

Indeed it is probably partly due to Watchco and their practices that we have the current situation where parts are in very limited supply outside of the authorised network. Even within the network there are more restrictions than there used to be on things like 321 parts etc.

In the 1990s is was popular to mill down and skeletonize old low value movements. I wonder how this has affected values over the last quarter century.

I personally have no problem with franken watches, I have made a few myself from pocket watches for my own use. I guess the OP's question or concern relates to how to identify such constructions.

Some of this may be due to the Timex effect, which also applies to quartz watches. Where for the most part the watch is disposable. Or at least the movement is. In the trade pubs I have from the 1970s it was expected in the high value cased watches to do a movement swap. For most people the case and design, and hands, are what determines a watch is. This is probably a thread and subject unto itself.

In the situation of something like omega. There are some differences. Even in the old days Omega watches were a bit of a premium so
availability was such that one is more likely to keep the case and watch together. On the other hand due to market shifts in metal (and stone) values, a number of cases have been scrapped for the metal value. Stone values seem to have done the opposite with the ability to make synthetics. I would suspect that quite a few decent movements floated around because of this. I have a few uncased Omega pocket watch moments. I also have an omega pocket watch movement with a case and dial from a well known now defunct San Francisco Jeweler. So re-casing watches has been a tradition (at least in America) since the start of things.

I remember a sense of disappointment when I learned quite a few of my Omega's were "American" cased. A way to get around the Tariff acts. At least these watches are marked inside the case as being such watches. The watch I had that the Omega museum wanted seemed to have a genuine movement with a valid SN in a counterfeit case (with the case marks and omega triangle on the outside.) This was actually how I learned about American cased watches. I found this most confusing. And still do.

It is also curious that the case back is what is stamped or coined. I have been attempting to match backs with case cores, but it is a bit of a waste of time. Most base metal case cores have no markings on them. Coin metal case cores will have a hallmark stamp, but never a model number. Bezels take on a life of their own. It is next to impossible to match loose bezels to random cases.

I think what bothers me the most is the sight of naked uncased watches. It seems though tantamount to murder though to take a movement from a perfectly good cased watch and move it to another perfectly good but more valuable case. This also destroys history. (Which most people do not care about.)

Ideally if one has an empty case, from a manufacture that is still in existence. Consumers tend to think manufacture should provide a new engine to 'fix' it. Of course this does not always work. Manufactures would prefer the consumer purchase the newest model.

I am not much interested in cars, which might be an analog situation where people swap motors and such to make hot rods or something. Again this is a subject unto itself. I did find the Preston Tucker story interesting. I think there was criticism that in effect this is what he was doing to make his prototype car.

-j
(sorry I have no photographs but this thread is not really photo friendly as it deals with conceptual abstractions.)

Thread revival as I’ve now got the SM120 and SM300 bug. Is the above still valid @Archer? I thought I’d also read a post last year where it was detailed that conversions are no longer policy and these parts are now solely on an exchange basis (although I can’t seem to find that thread or post).

The Omega policy quoted above has not changed, so using Omega it is still theoretically possible to have Omega do the conversion. There was someone who had this done in one of those threads, but I believe that whole thread was removed.

As for any third party doing these conversions, you will need to exchange a case of the exact same type in order to get a new case. This change makes the Watchco style conversion basically not possible by anyone but Omega, because it's unlikely someone is going to send in a vintage SM300 case in exchange for a new one. Of course if you found a really poor condition case, it can still be done through a certified watchmaker. But the cases cannot be bought outright anymore.