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Old beat up Speedmaster, is it a 2915-3?

  1. momosono

    momosono Jul 12, 2019

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    Very damaged Base 1000 bezel,
    short indices on the subdial,

    Detail-6.JPG
    Unattractive bracelet that doesn't belong on a Speedmaster. Or an Omega for that matter.

    Detail-2.JPG

    Lume ugly and partly nonexistant, dial with a lot of damage

    Detail-3.JPG

    crooked second hand, hour and minute hands (alpha ??) OK

    Detail-1.JPG

    symmetrical clutch bridge
    16.64 million serial

    Detail-4.JPG

    Are these pushers correct?

    Detail-5.JPG

    Could this be a 2915-3? I am waiting for more pics and more information, so I have to guess on the basis of the serial.
    A better dial and bezel and a correct bracelet will not be easy to come by.
    So what is your opinion?
     
  2. STANDY

    STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Jul 12, 2019

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    Is this a jigsaw ::confused2::

    Post full size pictures for a better response.....
     
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  3. MTROIS

    MTROIS Jul 12, 2019

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    Could be an early 2998 as well... but need better pics...
     
    Caliber561 likes this.
  4. Caliber561

    Caliber561 Jul 12, 2019

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    The OP says that he's waiting for more pictures and more information—these are probably just pictures from the seller...
    And while we do need more pictures, there are some things we can assess just from what can be seen. The dial looks like an "oval O" dial, and the bezel is definitely a base 1000. The regulator is correct for the first version of the 321, and matches the symmetrical clutch. One curiosity though is the brassy color of the pallet fork bridge.
     
  5. SG90

    SG90 Jul 12, 2019

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    So it needs a new dial and bezel and hands, possible pushers, maybe replace a movement piece, and possible relume (depending on your preference).

    So you would just be paying for the case?

    Genuine question. As that does not seem an easy challenge!
     
  6. Caliber561

    Caliber561 Jul 12, 2019

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    If those dark green spots are on the dial, I'd pass because that probably indicates corrosion of the brass underneath the black lacquer. However, if those are just pieces of dirt flecks on the crystal or floating around the watch the dial may actually be nicer than it looks in the pictures. Regardless, I think you should consider whether or not this piece will be worth the effort and money you'd need to put in to bring it to the condition you want. It definitely falls more into the category of a project watch than something that's all correct and ready to wear.
     
    connieseamaster likes this.
  7. nonuffinkbloke

    nonuffinkbloke Jul 12, 2019

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    :D... nearly choked on my bacon roll laughing at that one @STANDY...:D
     
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  8. elmar2001

    elmar2001 Jul 13, 2019

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    Seems to be a 1 MP camera. Noisy and no resolution.
     
  9. drhex

    drhex Jul 14, 2019

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    This isn’t even a parts watch. Does it have history and is worth preserving as is? It will be very hard to find the parts to make it look good and probably cost as much as a good one anyway.
     
  10. WatchCor

    WatchCor Jul 14, 2019

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    Yeah, although I haven't restored watches or had a project watch I find it very difficult to believe that this one could be "fixed" within any meaningful time frame or budget for that matter
     
  11. Spacefruit

    Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Jul 14, 2019

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    Everything has a value. Sometimes that value is very little. But it is there.

    Who would not pay $1,000 for it?

    So let’s agree it’s saleable, and therefore has value.

    A watch like this can simply be serviced and brought back to life, showing all its faults, omissions and character. Some people like that, and some watches in this condition can assume an attraction far beyond the sum of its parts. Not sure that is the case here....

    The fun part is figuring out the value. It stops being fun when the price exceeds what sensible people think it’s worth.

    We need to know what is inside the case back. Probably 2915-3. If it is then next we need to check the movement is serviceable. If that’s a go, then the watch is probably worth $3,000 to$6,000. If you think that is too little or too much, think not what you think it might be worth, think how much YOU will put your hand in your pocket right now for it. That’s the value. Telling us what you think others might pay is unhelpful and usually out of date.

    What is the possible upside? Well after it’s been restored, it will be a blotchy (relume?) dial, a deep space bezel, but the parts will be correct for a 2915-3. The trouble is there is not a huge market for a watch in this condition, where a good example might fetch $70,000 this one might struggle to find a home for $15,000 when finished, and assuming the movement is correct, and the case is 2915 and doesn’t have a hole in it. (Many 2915-3 cases I have seen have heavy corrosion).

    This time last year, I think this might have got excitement on eBay and fetched over 10k. Today, I do not feel people ready to take chances on what is essentially shit. However a 2915-3 for $70,000 in the right condition will sell all day long.

    Here is my little everyday 2915-3. Thanks to a forum member who knew I was on the hunt for alpha’s. He showed me a pile of movement parts on eBay with what might have been two hands poking out from under a pile of wheels and bridges. Turned out the hour hand was long, and the movement 16m - it was the guts and hands of a 2915-3. I found a case which came with a bezel, and here is my travel watch. The dial is service but everything else is correct 2915-3, and it is my cheapest straight lug :

    194A2149-7DB7-4AD3-98B4-DFB2E7B74B1C.jpeg
     
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  12. S.H.

    S.H. Jul 14, 2019

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    I agree, it has value. Probably not 20k value, but as @Spacefruit said, it is quite far from worthless actually. For 1k to 5k, depending on the aesthetics (the overall feeling should be pleasing), this could be a very nice watch, honest and historically interesting.

    For example, my 105.003:

    732007-6acdcbf17d27bc9776685797245087b0.jpg

    Back says 105.003-63, s/n is not in the usual range and Omega knows nothing about it, so something is not 100% right. A flaw in the hour subdial. Lightly but incorrectly polished, brushed top and shiny sides. For most, it would a "worthless" EW, i. e. a watch to be broken up for its parts. For me, it was quite affordable, cost me around 2.5-3k with a later 1035 and repro endlinks (had it trading parts), so I can actually forget what I paid and enjoy it. I found correct pushers since I took the picture. Every time I see it, it does something to me, the overall impression is very attractive. ::love:: Dial subtly fade to flat dark gray, bezel is also scratched and faded but in a pleasing and homogeneous way.

    Call me nuts, but having a stunning museum grade Ed White like the one Spacefruit showed recently would satisfy me much less: a safe queen I could only look at would make me a little sad, I could not enjoy it on my wrist; I would probably trade it.

    We tend to forget that we are in it for our enjoyment (except some greedy a-holes wannabee dealers that seem to multiply since those things cost a lot) and get lost in gradation, technical details, and value retention...
     
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  13. JanV

    JanV Jul 20, 2019

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    aaaand so it sold for 18.000€ not including hammer of 20%. looked like it was one or two in-room bidders agains a few online bidders. was bidding on this one as well, until it went overboard, or someone just had to get it.
     
    4B3A0C8A-5AA9-46C0-802A-B549E41AE626.png
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  14. S.H.

    S.H. Jul 21, 2019

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    18k+ 20% :eek: I just don't get it... 10 or 15 years ago a good 321 premoon was maybe 1500-2500 eur on a good day. Now, any auction listing a half correct, half trashed one is 5-15k, including years of dirt, excluding fees. We see here some that are not entirely correct or pretty listed for 7-10k without bracelet.

    Strangely, all I'm hearing now is some people here saying that market is "softening" for middle of the road examples, auctions results are "mediocre", "disappointing", etc, but prices are ludicrous FFS! There is not an infinite market for 10k watches that look like they crawled from a dumpster! 10k euros is more than half of my annual income...

    Not really any softening for me. Of course some mediocre / not pretty watches don't always sell easily, but sellers also don't want pocket change for it! Greediness on one side, on the other side I think some buyers are nuts ::screwloose:: or have too much money.

    Rant over, sorry :p
     
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  15. momosono

    momosono Jul 22, 2019

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    like @JanV I watched the auction but I didn't bid because - based on the useful observations of @Spacefruit et al. for which I thank them - the watch posed too many problems for me.
    By the way, amazing how the description evolved between the first anouncement and the day of sale.
    I suppose quite a few people asked for supplementary pics and information like I did.
     
    JanV likes this.
  16. JanV

    JanV Jul 22, 2019

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    Still the result baffles me, 22.000€ for this example with a by gone dial and beat up, chewed up bezel. I would love to have a “beater” 2915 or 2998, i think these look very cool with the correct strap combo, but not at this price.

    Did someone here get it, would love to see how much the dial eventually cleans up, or if it was a bad as in the pictures. (The additional pictures from the auction house did not show any difference to the condition of the dial).
     
  17. S.H.

    S.H. Jul 22, 2019

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    I think it is probably a bit rotten, I see rust in the movement (and hope that the pusher screws are not frozen solid...). Maybe somebody needed some parts (the handset for ex.) to complete another better one?
     
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  18. momosono

    momosono Jul 22, 2019

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    Mighty expensive hands imho
     
  19. S.H.

    S.H. Jul 22, 2019

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    Yes but if a complete and good looking watch is missing the hands : completing it would make it worth 50+k, if it was bought 15years ago for 1.5k it is a no brainer. And refitted with wrong hands, some joker may even buy this junked one again for 10k. That is a gain of 35k at least, without doing much.

    ::screwloose:: market, I know.
     
    JanV likes this.