A 105.003 speedmaster 1965 with very bad dial what is the value of it after replacing the dial to a service dial? and is that someting to recomend?
case is good, bezel original, and movement light serviced, but i am afraid when i see the bad dial that moist or water has been into the watch since the dial is so faded and bad
Yea that's always my worry too, a good watchmaker can always make a movement run and look good but whenever the dial is water damaged like that it scares me thinking about how long it took to be treated and how much of a toll that took on the movement. If you haven't seen the thread on my sister in law's Daytona below is the movement before it was sorted. You can see the rust visibly and it goes much deeper to the point where it had physically jammed a couple of wheels. My watchmaker removed all of the rust, got it back to +1 second per day, and completely back within specification while refinishing the rusted surfaces so well that you can't tell anymore how bad it was but the damage to many parts from being worn for years with debris in the movement is no doubt still there.
I was thinking of putting my fully serviced 105.003-64 with service dial up for about 5.5K Would be interested to hear feedback.
Most of the value is in the dial; the hands; then caseback/case/bezel; then movement; then crown and pushers. But by far, the dial. Because it's the dial and hands more than anything else that separates a 105.003 from a brand new FOIS you can grab at your local boutique today. If you had a period service dial (e.g., suppose the service dial and hands were swapped at a service in 68 or 69, just a few short years after production), you'd be closer in price to an original piece. A modern service dial, however, changes the equation drastically. This is not dissimilar from what's in the Rolex world. But Subs such as 5513, 5512s, even 6538 big crowns that would fetch $50K-$100K all original, will sell in the 20 -30s with a period service dial, or even teens to low 20's if they have a modern service dial. For really unique pieces like this where there just isn't a lot of hard data or certainty, one thing you can do is list on eBay with no reserve. Generally, a 5 or 10 day auction will expose the watch worldwide, allowing buyers to bid to the maximum price they're willing to pay for the watch, which would get you a price that is truly reflective of true market vale, because by definition, your watch would sell at the highest price an interested buyer was wiling to pay for it.
I suspect the watch would fetch more money if the original dial and hands were re fitted. No matter how bad.
I suspect that the watch under discussion would fetch the same as this, even though this example is a more desired 2998, I think at this level it doesn't make much difference to the actual sale value. (Though it would to me). This 2998 with a new dial and handset, non original bracelet and new bezel sold for around $3000 in an open auction about 10 days ago. It had a 17m serial. so all in a very good start to a 2998 project, especially if you could find hands and dial. Oh hold on.... This relumed dial just sold for a staggering £1300. Imagine what an original is worth? So I would say the dial is the heart of the value, and without it the watch is worth just parts.
I saw the re-lumed "original" dial too. Pretty easy to age a brand new $200 service dial, re-lume it and turn $200 into $2,000 I would think. Gets me thinking as to how many of the watches you see for sale with "original patina" have in fact been sympathetically re-lumed.
That dial was a item I was selling. It is a original dial not a new service dial. It is easy to age a new dial but it is not easy to put a step on the dial, change the print or dial makers marks.
fair points, though just how easy it is to age is open to discussion. And I would also say....show me what you can do if it is so easy! (I have tried, believe me) the dial in question was offered by a respected member here who has detailed the process in forums. I would say say his re-luming was a truer restoration than any other re luming work I have see. as I said. If a dial that has been sympathetically restored is worth that money, what is an original one worth?